🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Log available at irclogs.raku.org/raku/live.html . If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel!
Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
Anton Antonov 👍 00:00
00:00 reportable6 left
tonyo monads describe a gateway language 00:00
00:02 reportable6 joined
Anton Antonov And semi-groups prescribe physical processes... 00:03
rf Monads describe nature, Functions describe humans 00:22
tonyo the side effect is more monads 00:38
01:02 linkable6 left, evalable6 left 01:03 linkable6 joined 01:04 xinming left 01:05 evalable6 joined
rf Perhaps nature is an infinite monad? 01:06
01:06 xinming joined 01:09 initrd joined
Anton Antonov @rf no, it is fractal. 01:24
Monads are too simple.
01:24 derpydoo joined
rf The side-effect is Anton disagrees :) 01:26
01:27 _73 joined 01:29 _73 left 01:41 nort joined 01:50 frost joined 01:59 frost left 02:15 tejr left, tejr joined 02:38 razetime joined
perryprog I can't get over how monads & stuff comes from the mathematical study of donuts and crap 02:47
One of the most fundamental ideas of computer science comes from the folks who like coffee cups and twisted bracelets. 02:48
02:55 frost joined 03:06 frost left
lucs Speaking of math, have you guys heard about this?; 03:18
arxiv.org/pdf/2303.10798.pdf
(Aperiodic monotiles) 03:19
rf lucs: Yeah that is a very interesting topic 03:24
04:04 razetime left 04:12 initrd left 04:34 frost joined 04:58 frost left, razetime joined 05:31 jmcgnh left 05:32 frost joined 05:35 frost left 05:39 jmcgnh joined 05:59 abraxxa joined 06:00 heartburn left, thowe left, reportable6 left, thowe joined, reportable6 joined, heartburn joined 06:37 derpydoo left 06:49 bpalmer joined 06:50 teatwo joined 06:54 tea3po left 06:56 teatwo left, teatwo joined 07:05 sena_kun joined 07:29 Sgeo left 07:47 dakkar joined
Nemokosch Hm, I wouldn't think monads are particularly relevant for topology 07:55
08:06 xinming left 08:08 xinming joined 08:10 razetime left 08:34 razetime joined
Anton Antonov They can just provide nice “narratives” — the computational universe is much richer. (I might be channeling Stephen Wolfram here..) 08:39
09:09 jpn joined 09:35 sena_kun left 10:27 razetime left, razetime1 joined 10:30 razetime1 is now known as razetime 10:34 razetime1 joined, razetime left 10:35 razetime1 is now known as razetime 10:38 razetime left 10:59 expon joined 11:00 exp is now known as Guest7630, Guest7630 left, expon is now known as exp, MasterDuke left 12:00 reportable6 left 12:02 reportable6 joined, an3223 joined 12:12 an3223 left 12:19 jpn left 12:33 an3223 joined 12:51 jpn joined 12:52 tejr left 12:55 jpn left 12:59 tejr joined 13:15 jgaz joined
abraxxa I´m trying Raku on Windows (11) for the first time and zef fails to install every module with different errors. Should that work? I´ve installed Raku with the MSI (not Rakudo Star) 13:23
Text::CSV because Zef::Service::Shell::tar fail, my guess is because Windows has no tar command 13:25
lizmat hmmmm ugexe ^^ 13:27
abraxxa File::HomeDir fails because it can´t find a file which is there when I look in Exlorer 13:29
13:30 jpn joined
abraxxa [File::HomeDir] Failed to open file C:\Users\A312318\AppData\Local\Temp\.zef\File%3A%3AHomeDir%3Aver%3C1.0.2%3E%3Aauth%3Cgithub%3Aazawawi%3E.tar.gz\raku-file-homedir-master\.precomp\44915DAEDA6406CD6C8F002F1AE07CF06EA94EF7\5D\5DACBC5E09D57728B09EE6FD5073813AD953B889.repo-id.66781AL5B1MWWODZ3P3BWOLJN.tmp: No such file or directory 13:30
copy´n´pasting that into explorer even works
I could use WSL2 when Raku on Windows is too much hassle but thought I´d give it a try
lizmat abraxxa: sadly we don't have any core developers using WIndows anymore on a day-to-day basis :-( 13:32
abraxxa I FULLY understand that :-)
I was forced by my employer to use Windows after 13 years of Ubuntu (and the switch to Arch happening soon)
lizmat I shut down my last Windows machine about 20 years ago 13:33
Anton Antonov @abraxxa Here are the steps to fix this: 1) Change employer, 2) Go back to using Ubuntu. 13:34
lizmat if it were only so simple :-)
Anton Antonov Of course, that might be easier said than done...
@lizmat Right!! 13:35
13:37 sarna left 13:38 sarna joined
ugexe abraxxa: it is rakus own precomp process that is the issue (so you can reproduce without zef if you wanted) 13:38
in that the paths getting created are beyond the max path length
abraxxa why is the Ubuntu PPA not listed here? rakudo.org/downloads
rf Morning folks
abraxxa ugexe: understood
sorry, didn´t see rakudo-pkg as I was only searching in the Ubuntu section 13:40
ugexe to fix it rakus IO::Spec::Win32 needs to properly parse DOS paths (\\?\ prefixed paths, which are not the same as \\ServerName\UNC type paths), and moarvm or raku then need to use those \\?\ paths internally
abraxxa: you can try setting ZEF_CONFIG_TMPDIR=C:\Temp to shorten the path where zef puts those files which might sneak you under the limit 13:43
abraxxa nevermind, WSL it is
until they block this too as the policy implicitly doesn´ t allow it
ugexe ZEF_CONFIG_TEMPDIR rather
abraxxa so the maximum path length isn´t an absolut Windows limit, else the path wouldn´t have been able to get created, but one of the API Raku uses on Windows? 13:48
lizmat afaik it *is* a semi-absolute limit on some versions of Windows
and yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2023/03/27/2023-13-finitely/ 13:58
Nemokosch Template::Nest::XS wasn't me ^^ 14:00
involuntary plagiarism 😄
lizmat Nemokosch you did the update, according to the commits? 14:04
ah wrong marton 14:05
fixed 14:06
afk&
ugexe abraxxa: one way that might help explain how it works is how nodejs works since both use libuv. node "normalizes" all paths before sending them off to libuv, and part of that normalization involving converting a path that is like over 255 characters (or having a path part over 255 characters) and converting from C:\my\really\long\path to \\?\C:\my\really\long\path 14:10
Nemokosch 😂
I got a bit scared lol 14:11
ugexe and the reason long paths work with the \\?\ is because Windows won't down its own normalization (which isnt the same as the aforementioned node normalization) and validation, sending the path directly through whatever api 14:13
for instance if you use \\?\ paths you cant use / because that is typically handled by windows internal normalization
gist.github.com/ugexe/cadebd4e3e47...ku-L35-L41 14:15
tbrowder__ .tell CIAvash i'm trying to fork Pod::Contents but I can't get an account on your git repo (no email sent to me). i'm trying to download it and will establish my "fork" on github for now. 14:16
tellable6 tbrowder__, I'll pass your message to CIAvash
abraxxa ugexe: interesting, thanks! 14:18
seems like a pretty important feature for Windows support
the FAQ docs.raku.org/language/faq.html says p6doc can be installed using zef for reading local docs, but zef can´t find it 14:24
I guess it was renamed to rakudoc. If that´s correct can someone please update the FAQ? 14:25
14:38 linkable6 left, evalable6 left, Sgeo joined 14:41 linkable6 joined, evalable6 joined
abraxxa anyone familiar with Spreadsheet::XLSX who can tell me how to loop rows of a worksheet? 14:56
the rows attribute seems to be private: modules.raku.org/dist/Spreadsheet:...akumod#L40 15:03
Spreadsheet::Libxlsxio needs a library not included in Debian 15:08
so back to export to CSV in Excel...
or use Perl
15:26 Tirifto left 15:27 Tirifto joined
abraxxa I just can´t find out why .grep(/^#/) doesn´t parse 15:48
Unrecognized regex metacharacter , (must be quoted to match literally)
the line number is incorrect two, says two lines after this one
ugexe escape the # probably
(just guessing)
abraxxa why? 15:49
ugexe *shrugs*
abraxxa yes, that seems to fix it
ugexe "The hash character # is not available as a delimiter since it is parsed as the start of a comment that runs until the end of the line." 15:50
abraxxa I´m not trying to use it as a delimiter
perryprog it's considered a metacharacter, so you have to escape it to match the string "#". 15:51
I'm not actually sure what it's a metacharacter for
abraxxa I see, thanks
15:54 japhb left
perryprog Docs don't seem to say why 15:54
15:56 japhb joined
bpalmer isn't it simply so that you can use comments inside a regular expression? 16:16
perryprog Well, compare that with something like 16:20
m: say "this is some text # and this isn't interpreted as a comment"
camelia this is some text # and this isn't interpreted as a comment
abraxxa what am I doing wrong here? my $cost-center-tag = @tags.first({%cost-center-for-tag{$_}:exists}); 16:21
no ´normal´ usage of the grep and first methods is shown in the docs
lizmat abraxxa: looks ok to me, what is the error ?
Anton Antonov @perryprog I just quoted to a friend your mis-quoting of Lagrange. 16:22
perryprog :)
abraxxa my $cost-center-tag = @tags.first: %cost-center-for-tag{*}:exists; doesn´t work either
Anton Antonov @perryprog Can you listen to this interview ? www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5WZhCBRDpU . Or you hate SW too much 🙂 16:23
lizmat abraxxa: what is the error ?
perryprog Anton, oh yeah I've been meaning to watch that. 16:24
Definitely agree that LLMs acting as a front-end to a more "computational" engine will be a big deal, especially with regard to how awful they currently are at accurate synthesis (that is, when it comes to data comparisons, for instance) as well as memorization of pure facts. 16:25
Anton Antonov I plan to get more impressed by ChatGPT, because SW is impressed by it (them.) 16:32
I this point I think "it is just generative text device."
perryprog It is definitely not "generative text device". I'd recommend getting an account and just playing around with it for a bit. I thought the same thing before I tried it myself. 16:33
Anton Antonov @perryprog I got an account and played with it. 🙂 See "WWW::OpenAI" and "racoons playing with pearls and onions." 16:35
16:36 dakkar left
perryprog (btw is there a uh... #raku-offtopic channel so we can stop interrupting the folks getting help in here?) 16:36
lizmat how about a #raku-pad ?
perryprog pad? 16:37
Anton Antonov Ditto, pad??
Actually, I think that interview by Stephen Wolfram should be listened by anyone here (in this Raku channel) -- he has a very "grammatical" point of view to the universe and its understanding. 16:38
lizmat it was the name of the first off-topic general purpose notesfile on PLATO 16:39
perhaps #raku-talkomatic would be more appropriate :-)
perryprog ... nerd
lizmat en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talkomatic 16:40
perryprog (and TIL)
Anton Antonov 🙂 Well, I am ready to admit that I have polluted the channel...
lizmat I think calling such a channel #raku-offtopic would be too on-topic? 16:43
:-)
well, too descriptive maybe... 16:44
16:53 an3223 left 16:55 an3223 joined 16:57 derpydoo joined
Anton Antonov Say, "raku-acme" -- we can ask ChatGPT, of course... 17:01
17:19 ab5tract joined, jpn left 17:35 jpn joined
Here are some ChatGPT suggestions: i.imgur.com/Ut1OeJD.png . 17:43
17:52 jpn left 17:54 jpn joined 18:00 reportable6 left 18:01 reportable6 joined
Nemokosch I thought it was fairly straightforward in Raku: everything that isn't downright an alphanumeric character, must be escaped or quoted in regular expressions 18:07
I think this is the most sane rule to regex I have ever encountered
you can just quote everything that you don't intend to use with a special meaning, and forget about the struggle to remember what has a another meaning and what doesn't 18:08
anyway, it would be good to know what "doesn't work" meant 18:10
18:22 sena_kun joined 18:23 MoC joined 18:30 abraxxa left 18:33 abraxxa-home joined
tonyo guifa: were you able to test on the `dist` branch of fez ? 18:35
18:36 jpn left 18:51 tea3po joined 18:54 tea3po left 18:55 tea3po joined, teatwo left 19:19 jpn joined 19:32 an3223 left
exp i'm currently experiencing 19:35
weird, those packets got through 19:36
wrong channel :)
19:58 derpydoo left 20:06 jpn left 20:25 n1to joined 20:30 MoC left 21:03 bpalmer left 21:11 jpn joined 21:19 abraxxa-home left 21:32 jgaz left 22:01 tib left 22:02 tib_ joined 22:13 n1to left
guifa tonyo: I have not yet ... just got home now and going to take a look at it hopefully this evening 22:20
23:13 linkable6 left, evalable6 left 23:14 evalable6 joined 23:15 jpn left 23:16 tib_ left, linkable6 joined, tib_ joined 23:47 jgaz joined