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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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guifa just realized that is semi joke idea of having an inline C block get compiled in the background and added with NativeCall was.... already done! 01:53
Just with Go instead
Voldenet I did that already, it's not that much of a joke actually 01:56
simplifies writing wrappers with libs requiring structs
guifa Voldenet: link? 01:58
Voldenet the shortest example I have on hand ix.io/4Aoy
guifa is preparing a history of slangs
Voldenet definitely not a slang though
guifa Remind me of that link in a week or so 01:59
And I'll try to make it one haha
(would just need to write a C grammar et voilà)
tbrowder__ .ask lizmat is there a public way to search the weekly archives? 02:03
tellable6 tbrowder__, I'll pass your message to lizmat
Voldenet reason why I didn't do slang is because C's grammar is impressively large and I simply needed to work on C code iteratively: www.quut.com/c/ANSI-C-grammar-l-2011.html 02:08
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guifa Voldenet: yeah. But if I could get the grammar to at least validate, I could hand the string en masse to the compiler 02:16
the catch is the preprocessing and Pragma handling I think 02:17
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Voldenet hmm, I think the slang would need to do two passes for that 02:22
with preprocessor grammar being separate from C grammar 02:23
expanding macros in a raku grammar definitely sounds like a fun adventure 02:27
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guifa Voldenet the catch of course is how to preprocess when you're looking for a non-EOF terminal token 03:46
Voldenet doesn't preprocessor stop when it finds EOF though 03:47
guifa right, but if I do something like 03:48
c-sub foo { ... }
my EOT is now actually } 03:49
err EOF
Voldenet but you still need to expand macros, they could conditionally expand into } or not 03:52
some solution would be to simply get the longest parsable output of gcc -E by iterating from the end of the file 03:59
since most likely raku code will not be parsable by gcc…
practically I bet that `consume anything, devour literals and preprocessor directives, count {}s in real code` would cover all useful code 04:05
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lizmat . 09:04
tellable6 2023-07-12T02:03:12Z #raku <tbrowder__> lizmat is there a public way to search the weekly archives?
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lizmat .tell tbrowder_ on google, include "rakudoweekly.blog" in your search, and it will effectively do that for you 09:07
tellable6 lizmat, I'll pass your message to tbrowder__
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Geth docker: 7cae2b1fce | (Daniel Mita)++ | 5 files
Bump to 2023.06
 10:29
docker: 40594a6003 | Altai-man++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 5 files
Merge pull request #55 from Raku/2023.06

Bump to 2023.06
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[Coke] Do we have any concurrency examples that show running an external program, getting output and *also* the exitcode? Most of the samples I have at hand (and in the concurrency page in the docs) shows one or the other, but not both. 13:15
(that is, it's either a react block to deal with input and output, or a shell that checks the exitcode, but not both)
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[Coke] ah, docs.raku.org/type/Proc/Async does have a giant react block with an .exitcode, but could use better highlighting (and a bug fix on the output there). 13:18
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tbrowder__ japhb: i am adding issues to my pending pr to 13:44
tellable6 2023-07-12T09:07:42Z #raku <lizmat> tbrowder_ on google, include "rakudoweekly.blog" in your search, and it will effectively do that for you 13:45
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tbrowder__ show my intended changes. what do you think about creating a separate module to create a test json input file? or make App::* a class and create such in the TWEAK? 13:48
lizmat: search worked great, thnx 13:49
[Coke]: for us timid proc users, examples consistently showing how to get final results are really appreciated. 13:56
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melezhik . 14:17
if there is way in raku to dynamically generate list of functions?
say I have a @list and I want to integrate through it and generate a function named $I for every item in list 14:18
where $I is an item in @list 14:19
m: my @list = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { our sub $item () {} } 14:20
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { our sub⏏ $item () {} }
expecting any of:
new name to be defined
melezhik m: my @list = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { say $item  } 14:21
camelia a
b
c
melezhik m: my @list = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { eval  "sub $item () \{ \}"  }
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
eval used at line 1. Did you mean 'EVAL', 'val'?
melezhik m: my @list = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { EVAL  "sub $item () \{ \}"  }
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
EVAL is a very dangerous function!!! (use the MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL pragma
to override this error but only if you're VERY sure your data contains
no injection attacks).
at <tmp>:1
------>  -> $i…
melezhik m: use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL; my @list = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { EVAL  "sub $item () \{ \}"  } 14:22
camelia ( no output )
melezhik m: use MONKEY-SEE-NO-EVAL; my @list = <a b c>; for @list  -> $item { EVAL  "sub $item () \{ \}"  }; a();
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
a used at line 1
melezhik maybe better try my luck with closures 14:24
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[Coke] m: { sub a() {} }; a() 14:57
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
a used at line 1
[Coke] m: sub a() {}; a()
camelia ( no output )
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japhb tbrowder__: Didn't realize you could PR *issues* on GitHub, that's kindof cool in an odd sort of way. 15:42
I'm totally fine with having a module that creates test files and data sets. The reason I originally chose to use an externally-created JSON file is so that I used real-world data shapes and didn't accidentally design the data set to favor particular codecs. 15:43
But as long as we keep at least one (usefully large and complex) real world JSON data file, I'm happy to have generated ones as well that test particular facets of performance or fidelity or what have you. 15:44
tbrowder__: Did I answer all your questions? :-)
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tbrowder__ weird, i can't find the issues now, but yes. anyhoo, one thing i really need from you in the README is a short intro on how a new raku person should set up and run the app. how to get the big json, file, etc. make it suitable for a person looking to move from python to raku. 16:03
and not familiar with all the ecosystem bits 16:04
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tbrowder__ ahem, and to help me :-) 16:13
guifa First talk down. Now to finish writing the next one haha 16:20
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japhb tbrowder__: Ah, meaning, you'd like me to do that *first* it sounds like, since it's not obvious how to get set up properly. OK, will put that on my list for today (which is kinda packed, so it will be a bit before I can do so). 16:44
tbrowder__ no rush, thnx 16:45
this is just nice-to-have stuff for me
japhb gotcha 16:46
antononcube @guifa "(would just need to write a C grammar et voilà)" -- Probably not that hard -- or hard, but easier -- using ANTLR C grammars and DrForr's conversion packages. 16:53
Or using (E)BNF grammars for C and my conversion packages. 🙂 16:55
guifa The catch is that C has a multi phase compile process with macro expansions in some of those 17:16
Ack, some of the RakuAST stuff changed 17:18
antononcube @guifa Yeah, and the so called "lexer hack."
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nemokosch the C preprocessor is banally simple compared to a usual PL parser though 17:24
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antononcube What is "PL parser" ? 17:29
guifa programming language
antononcube 🙂 Agh
guifa nemokosch: yeah, there are single pass C compilers so it can be done, will just be complex
antononcube There are existing efforts: raku.land/github:andydude/C::Parser 17:30
nemokosch I took this mannerism from raiph 17:31
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tbrowder__ i'm trying to use JSON::Fast to output sorted keys using ":sorted" keys. it works find for "text" keys, but my hash has "Numeric" keys. for such hashes, this works: "%myhash.keys.sort({.Numeric}". the README says to give a Callable but so far i've had no success. any help, pls? 17:53
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tbrowder__ m: my %h = set <100 90 8>; say %h.keys.sort; say %h.keys.sort({.Numeric}); 17:56
camelia (100 8 90)
(8 90 100)
tbrowder__ i'm trying to get the same kind of results with JSON::Fast but haven't broken the code on the correct syntax yet. 17:58
sorry, JSON::Fast uses ":sorted-keys" as named arg 17:59
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nemokosch does JSON even interpret numeric keys I wonder 18:27
japhb Nope. But CBOR does.
(ObCBORIsBetterComment) 18:28
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nemokosch when I read binary, I always think: does this mean we re-enter byte-order hell? 18:30
actually I have a funny issue at work, they cast it as if it was simply a byte-order portability upgrade but the currently generated binary is clearly significantly different from the expected binary, the length is the same but the histogram of bytes is visibly completely different :\ 18:31
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tbrowder__ m: my %h = set <"100" "90" "8">; say %h.keys.sort; say %h.keys.sort({.Numeric}); 18:37
camelia ("100" "8" "90")
Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏\"100\"' (indicated by ⏏)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
tbrowder__ m: my %h = set <"100" "8" "90">; say %h.keys.IntStr.sort{.Numeric}); 18:40
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unexpected closing bracket
at <tmp>:1
------> "90">; say %h.keys.IntStr.sort{.Numeric}⏏);
tbrowder__ m: my %h = set <"100" "8">; say %h.keys.IntStr.sort({.Numeric}); 18:42
camelia No such method 'IntStr' for invocant of type 'Seq'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
tbrowder__ m: my $a = "100"; sat $a.IntStr 18:44
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
sat used at line 1. Did you mean 'set', 'say'?
[Coke] . 18:45
tbrowder__ m: my %h = set <"100" "8">; say %h.keys.Int.sort({.Numeric}); 18:47
camelia (2)
[Coke] do you mean >>.IntStr ?
calling Int on a list == calling .elems
tbrowder__ wrong order... 18:48
maybe needs a .map 18:54
[Coke] sure, >>.foo is like .map(*.foo) 18:56
tbrowder__ ok, trying offline... 19:00
never was very good at golf! 19:07
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xinming_ Is there any dynamic var builtin for a loop? 19:15
Something like, $?LOOP-COUNT etc..
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nemokosch what would that do? 19:29
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[Coke] m: my @a = 'a'..'q'; for @a.kv -> ($k,$v) { say $k, $v } 19:44
camelia Cannot unpack or Capture `0`.
To create a Capture, add parentheses: \(...)
If unpacking in a signature, perhaps you needlessly used parentheses? -> ($x) {} vs. -> $x {}
or missed `:` in signature unpacking? -> &c:(Int) {}
in block <unit> at …
[Coke] m: my @a = 'a'..'q'; for @a.kv -> $k,$v { say $k, $v } 19:45
camelia 0a
1b
2c
3d
4e
5f
6g
7h
8i
9j
10k
11l
12m
13n
14o
15p
16q
[Coke] that's not quite what you're asking 19:46
m: my @a = 'a'..'q'; for @a -> $v { FIRST state $k; say $k++, $v # this either 19:47
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> RST state $k; say $k++, $v # this either⏏<EOL>
expecting any of:
postfix
statement end
statement modifier
stat…
[Coke] m: my @a = 'a'..'q'; for @a -> $v { FIRST state $k; say $k++, $v } # this either
camelia 0a
1b
2c
3d
4e
5f
6g
7h
8i
9j
10k
11l
12m
13n
14o
15p
16q
xinming_ m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (@array) { @array.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x))
camelia Signature constraint check failed in binding to parameter '&t'; expected :(Array $) but got :(@array)
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
[Coke] (the FIRST is useless there, nevermind)
xinming_ m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my \a = <a b>; t(\a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 19:48
camelia Signature constraint check failed in binding to parameter '&t'; expected :(Array $) but got :(@a)
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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xinming_ in this case, How do we enforce Array type in sub-signatures please? 19:49
m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(2a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x))
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(2⏏a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.…
xinming_ m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 19:50
camelia Signature constraint check failed in binding to parameter '&t'; expected :(Array $) but got :(@a)
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
xinming_ m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t($ = @a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)); # adding $ = @a in arg call also raises the error 19:52
camelia Signature constraint check failed in binding to parameter '&t'; expected :(Array $) but got :(@a)
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
tbrowder__ ref sorting JSON::Fast, looking at the code, lizmat implemented the sorting, and it looks to me like it only p 20:01
*permits the $^a cmp $^b style.. 20:02
[Coke] looking at the code, I'm not sure what's expecting a pair, but yah, I can't get it to work with just .Int either. 20:20
I'd write a sub that does what tou want and pass that so you don;'t need it all in the invocation of to-json 20:21
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[Coke] m: sub inter($a, $b) {$a.key.Int cmp $b.key.Int}; my %a = (80=>1, 100=>2, 10=>30); use JSON::Fast; my $b = to-json(%a, :pretty, :sorted-keys(&inter)); say $ 20:25
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Could not find JSON::Fast in:
/home/camelia/.raku
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/sh…
[Coke] here, this generates { "10": 30, "80": 1, "100": 2 } but pretty 20:26
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tbrowder__ hm, thnx, looks good,but not working for me yey 21:14
*yet, still trying... 21:15
Voldenet you can't sort keys in json 21:20
you can attempt, but almost no json parser makes guarantees of keys being sorted
m: my %a = (80=>1, 100=>2, 10=>30); use JSON::Fast; my $b = to-json(%a.List.sort(*.key <=> *.key).map(*.kv), :pretty); say $b 21:23
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Could not find JSON::Fast in:
/home/camelia/.raku
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/sh…
tbrowder__ erg, i have a mixed bag, mostly IntStrs, but a few Str only. trying to fancify my sub
ok, got it working! thanks for the help, [Coke]! 21:37
i seem to remember this dance now: my sub does elsif on ~~ Int or Str and then either uses cmp or <=> on the two same type keys or just orders them on my preference (all Str before all Int) 21:41
Voldenet: ye of little faith, Raku rules! 21:43
Voldenet it's not about raku strictly, but about json 21:44
either way, arrays are better way of expressing anything in json 21:45
arrays are usually faster to parse, accept more datatypes as 'keys'
must preserve sorting 21:46
that last property is the most useful, since you can have a discriminator field as first field in the array
so '{ "type": "SomeBoringDto", "field1": 1, "field2": 2 }' -> '["SomeBoringDto", "field1", 1, "field2", 2]' 21:47
tbrowder__ yes, i think i see, but, for my use case, the sorted hash is just what i want. it would help a bunch if you could put some good examples in the docs or the JSON::Fast module. 21:59
lizmat PRs welcome :-) 22:00
tbrowder__ yepper!
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xinming_ m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 22:39
camelia Signature constraint check failed in binding to parameter '&t'; expected :(Array $) but got :(@a)
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
xinming_ m: sub t (Array $a) { $a.raku.say; }; my @a = <a b>; t(@a);
camelia $["a", "b"]
xinming_ Anyone here knows why the latter worked, But the :&t:(Array) version doesn't work as expected? 22:40
How can I make the former example work
m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (Array \a) { a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 22:43
camelia ["a", "b"]
xinming_ I figured out a version which seem to work, But quite confusing
m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (Array $a) { $a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 22:44
camelia $["a", "b"]
xinming_ m: sub a (:&t:(@x)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 22:51
camelia ["a", "b"]
xinming_ Now, I'm quite confused by @x vs Array 22:52
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nemokosch well there might be a reason people don't like to talk about this stuff 23:01
I suspect if the community ever took the type system seriously, that would have led to the impression that @ really does more harm than good 23:02
needless to say, that's only my 2 cents, although I have a reason to think that 23:03
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xinming_ I think I can understand the reason now, Array $a is not the same as @a 23:04
Since Array in signature, It expects a scalar container around the Array, Where @a means the Array itself 23:05
docs does mention that Array, List is the most difficult part to design, I believe so. 23:06
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Voldenet @a means the array container around the 23:07
Array
m: my $s := []; my @a := $s; $s.push(42); dd @a 23:08
camelia [42]
nemokosch it's debated whether that can be considered a container or not. From a certain point of view it is (it can supply assignment semantics via the STORE method), from another it isn't (it's VAR method reports the same value back, same for decontainerisation) 23:09
Voldenet this is enormously confusing and source of errors, so I usually use scalars everywhere out of p5 habit
nemokosch I tend to forget how it is for function parameters, iirc it's not quite like for variables - but one thing is sure 23:10
Scalar is an extra feature, a $variable is net more capable than a @variable 23:11
Voldenet btw, this example has tons of problems: `sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x))` 23:12
s/tons of/two/ 23:13
xinming_ Voldenet: Well, It's just for testing purpose. But glad to hear the corrections
Voldenet `<a b>` produces a List, and `x` consumes anything
xinming_ That's why I assign <a b> to @a 23:14
nemokosch @a will be an Array containing two strings, I see no problem with that
xinming_ m: sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say }; x(1,2,3);
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Calling x(Int, Int, Int) will never work with declared signature (@a)
at <tmp>:1
------> sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say }; ⏏x(1,2,3);
xinming_ m: sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say }; x((1,2,3),); 23:15
camelia (1, 2, 3)
Voldenet makes sense
nemokosch pretty sure assignment to @vars itself is subject to the "single argument rule"
xinming_ I know in these 2 days, My mind about Array/List in raku has refreshed. :-)
nemokosch so no nesting happens, instead, the content of the List is unwrapped straight into the Array @a declared
Voldenet m: sub a (:&t:(@)) { my @a = <a b>; t(@a); }; sub x (@a) { @a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x)) 23:16
camelia ["a", "b"]
xinming_ I think, explaining @ is not same as Array in signature may be a headache for both explainer and new raku users. 23:17
Voldenet simply using $ everywhere makes explaining and code simpler 23:18
nemokosch I agree, honestly
Voldenet m: sub a (:&t:(Array)) { my $a = <a b>.Array; t($a); }; sub x (Array $a) { $a.raku.say; }; a(:t(&x))
camelia $["a", "b"]
Voldenet it's so obvious
nemokosch especially if you are keen on typing
if you are keen on typing, I wouldn't even be trying with other sigils in your place, maybe the "unsigil" every now and then, that can be handy 23:19
xinming_ well it's perl, I like @ and %
nemokosch from what I heard, they were even more evil in Perl so maybe you just like to suffer 😛 23:20
Voldenet passing @ in perl was pure suffering
that's where you learn to use scalars everywhere
nemokosch anyway, they are absolutely not like type info or interface annotation in Raku either 23:21
Voldenet Well, it's understandable when you know that passing @ actually passes contents of the array and not the ref
nemokosch in Raku, the sigils are like metadata about how much of a variable the symbol should be - that, aaaand a convenient mixture of default value and interface annotation... 23:22
Voldenet …leads you to this madness
m: my $x = [1, 2]; for $x { .say } 23:23
camelia [1 2]
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Voldenet that's the most "perl5" thing in raku 23:26
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nemokosch well well, I think that's a surprisingly apparent mistake... the concept of "you can assign a single value to this" and "it is an atomic value" got mixed up 23:26
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I wonder if "itemization" is ever useful but even if it is, I wonder what urged somebody to mistake it for "scalarization", in the mutability sense 23:26
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leont isn't sure they ever truly grokked itemization 23:27
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japhb m: my \x = [1, 2]; for x { .say } 23:28
camelia 1
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japhb If you want to avoid itemization, you need merely say so. :-)
nemokosch but that's the thing - the Scalar container does two things at once 23:29
you have to opt out from something that you thought merely provided mutability
Voldenet mutability should be opt-in in the first place
nemokosch and being able to downright store an Array or whatever into one thing can be useful 23:30
so you might have valid reasons to use $var to hold a complex data type
it's rather obscure that you need to do this "decontainerization dance" when you merely want to iterate on it 23:31
tbrowder__ Voldenet: interesting about the json array: is it faster that just reading a formatted flat file?
nemokosch ... especially since most (but again, not all...) methods don't care about containerization at all, so it would be convenient to settle on for $x { ... } and $x.map({ ... }) reliably doing the same thing 23:32
tbrowder__ s/that/than;
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Voldenet tbrowder__: probably no, because flat file can be optimized further 23:33
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Voldenet json needs to use different code for unescaping strings and parsing floats and numbers, but integers can be simple numbers with separator 23:36
otoh writing .slurp-rest.split(",").map(*.Int) is probably going to be slower 23:38
since json deserializer can stream files in a wiser wayt
tbrowder__ ref flat file: yeah, that's kinda been my experience. but i think the json hash suits the data size i'm looking at. esp. for read, update, write.
and search 23:39
Voldenet if I needed read, update and write, I'd just use sqlite
it's orders of magnitude more flexible and faster
tbrowder__ i've thought about that (and used it in tnebut for me that will be a later optimization 23:40
Voldenet (btw, that full string deserialization is a problem that happens in some json C deserializers that simply do strlen which is O(n) in C…)
tbrowder__ *used it in the past 23:41
Voldenet in fact, if performance is important, then json is not the best format 23:42
japhb Formats that have length-specified strings and arrays don't (naturally at least) suffer from that problem, so e.g. protobuf and CBOR don't face the O(n) skipping issue.
Voldenet yeah, I was going to suggest protobuf which even has raku module
japhb And avoiding escaping and unescaping is really nice too.
Voldenet capnp and flatbuffers are going to be even faster, theoretically they can avoid deserializing and mmap into huge files 23:44
japhb Oh, as a side note: automagic JSON and CBOR handling are already part of Cro. So if you are using that, well, there you go.
tbrowder__ i'm looking at a need for a single-user data store, so i'm happy with the perf i've seen so far.
Voldenet though the path I'd use is json -> sqlite 23:45
japhb Makes sense
tbrowder__ ok, thnx
Voldenet sqlite if full json parse/write takes too much time
japhb ... or PostgreSQL if you want to do the same thing with some JSON- or JSONB-valued individual fields 23:46
But that's a much bigger sledgehammer. 23:47
Voldenet I've used mysql/postgres in some projects and I regret maintenance costs 23:48
usually where I should've used flat file to begin with
japhb MySQL I agree, having used that since Ye Olden Dayes. PostgreSQL I've had less trouble with. 23:49
Voldenet (not mysql, but mariadb now)
(still, not much difference in practice)
japhb Nodnod
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