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š¦ Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Log available at irclogs.raku.org/raku/live.html . If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel! Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022. |
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| tonyo | it's not about saving keystrokes but about solving the problem, regex is meant to match patterns and it should put those functions before all else..the regex /foobar/ or /dead horse/ is just as easily read as /'foobar'/ or /'dead horse'/ and cleaner | 01:17 | |
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| librasteve | m: my $s = 'dead horse'; say $s ~~ /horse/ | 07:43 | |
| Raku eval | ļ½¢horseļ½£ | ||
| librasteve | m: my $s = 'dead horse'; say $s ~~ /d horse/ | ||
| Raku eval | Nil Potential difficulties: Space is not significant here; please use quotes or :s (:sigspace) modifier (or, to suppress this warning, omit the space, or otherwise change the spacing) at /home/glot/main.raku:1 ------> my $s = 'dead horse'; say $s ~~ /dā horse/ | ||
| librasteve | m: my $s = 'dead horse'; say $s ~~ m:s/d horse/ | ||
| Raku eval | ļ½¢d horseļ½£ | ||
| librasteve | m: my $s = 'dead horse'; say $s ~~ /'d horse'/ | ||
| Raku eval | ļ½¢d horseļ½£ | ||
| librasteve | ^^ just right imo | 07:46 | |
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| nemokosch | well what can I do about it | 07:53 | |
| I heavily disagree that it's cleaner or as easily read | 07:54 | ||
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| it's not cleaner because it mixes instructions and literals | 07:55 | ||
| and if that doesn't make it harder to read already, significant whitespace also means that you cannot format it | 07:56 | ||
| I think these are fairly concrete arguments, on the other hand I only see this vague notion that it somehow stands in the way of solving the problem - how? | 07:58 | ||
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| (also, /'some literal'/ really doesn't even require a regex) | 08:02 | ||
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| tbrowder__ | late to the dance, but if i were looking for "dead horse" i would use ~~ /dead \h* horse/ | 10:35 | |
| m: say "dead horse" ~~ /dead \h* horse/ | 10:37 | ||
| camelia | ļ½¢dead horseļ½£ | ||
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| tonyo | they're concrete arguments if you think only you can be correct, for sure | 11:13 | |
| and i didn't say anything stands in the way of a problem so that's quite a few miles or kms out of context | 11:14 | ||
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| antononcube | I have a design or naming question. Given that "LLM" stands for "Large Language Model", which of these package / module names you find more / most "telling" for a package with the mission statement "Raku package for functions and function objects to access, interact, and utilize LLMs" : 0) LLM 1) LLM::Functions 2) LLM::Functors 3) LLM::Framework 4) LLM::Interlocutors | 13:29 | |
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| nemokosch | Well you didn't say anything in particular | 13:33 | |
| I assumed "it's about solving the problem" and "regex (...) should put those functions before all else" meant to communicate some argument | 13:34 | ||
| Maybe that was presumptuous on my side but I'd say in an argument that's actually the good faith attitude | 13:35 | ||
| Anyway, it's tiresome that some ad-hominem red herring gets thrown in, as if there wasn't an objectively measurable difference. | 13:38 | ||
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| tonyo | agreed, having to deny saying things i didn't say gets tiresome | 13:52 | |
| if you have a framework the 3, otherwise 0 is what i'd look at | |||
| nemokosch | then I guess we can agree that it's all about solving problems and tools that don't solve the problems are worthless | 13:57 | |
| one got to know why I prefer quoted literals and not really why you prefer unquoted literals, that's all what happened | 13:58 | ||
| I really can't see what's the need for looking for hooks to cling something personal there | 13:59 | ||
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| tonyo | it was asserted that it's possibly uncontended that people prefer raku regex to PCRE. i stated i prefer PCRE syntax for the most part because i don't like quoted literals in the regex. not sure we're arguing about what my preferences are. | 14:00 | |
| or why it's even really a discussion, as uninteresting as it is | |||
| lizmat | and uninteresting it is.... | 14:04 | |
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| nemokosch | well, then you basically reassured my point. I gave a reason that might convince someone that Raku regexes are better - you said that you prefer otherwise, because. | 14:12 | |
| why would that make arguments that people can just evaluate and consider, invalid | |||
| anyway, we could have spared this if you just downright said "I fancy it more and that's that" š¤·āāļø | 14:15 | ||
| lizmat | *sigh* | 14:17 | |
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| Voldenet | I prefer pcre syntax only because I've been using it for two decades and tons of languages adopted very similar syntax | 14:24 | |
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| nemokosch | at the end of the day, to be able to use whichever one syntax and transform it into as many variations as possible, is a win either way | 14:33 | |
| [Coke] | anything other than coding stopping us from adding a :pcre to support the syntax? (as opposed to linking to a library) | 14:34 | |
| nemokosch | imo the fact that the Raku syntax kind of stands out can even be a benefit for initial learning (less "which one was it" moments about the minuscule details) but once you only use one for some time, it doesn't matter as much anymore I guess | 14:36 | |
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| [Coke] | in the future, could we have a PCRE syntax RE compiled with rakuast and then rendered as a raku RE? (or vice versa) | 14:38 | |
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| tonyo | [Coke]: it'd be easy enough to hook up a PCRE library and grammar it | 15:05 | |
| s/grammar/slang | |||
| or should it be: s/'grammar'/slang | 15:06 | ||
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| tonyo | isn't there a :P5 in the regex? | 15:29 | |
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| tonyo | m: say so 'hello world' ~~ m:P5{o w} | 15:30 | |
| camelia | True | ||
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| SmokeMachine | m: use v6.e.PREVIEW; say ā42.is-primeā.AST | 15:40 | |
| camelia | RakuAST::StatementList.new( RakuAST::Statement::Expression.new( expression => RakuAST::ApplyPostfix.new( operand => RakuAST::IntLiteral.new(42), postfix => RakuAST::Call::Method.new( name => RakuAST::Name.from-identā¦ |
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| SmokeMachine | m: use v6.e.PREVIEW; say ā42.^nameā.AST | 15:41 | |
| camelia | RakuAST::StatementList.new( RakuAST::Statement::Expression.new( expression => RakuAST::ApplyPostfix.new( operand => RakuAST::IntLiteral.new(42), postfix => RakuAST::Call::MetaMethod.new( name => "name" ) ā¦ |
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| Voldenet | well, on top of :P5 there's inline perl | 16:44 | |
| m: EVAL q!print ('hello world' =~ m{o w}!, :lang<Perl5> | 16:45 | ||
| camelia | Could not find Inline::Perl5 in: /home/camelia/.raku /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/core CompUnit::Repository::Absā¦ |
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| lizmat | Well, I guess that could be one approach: :P5 to call into Inline::Perl5 somehow | 16:46 | |
| advantage would be that the P5 regex would always be compatible with the Perl version that is being used :-) | |||
| another approach could be to drop support for :P5 altogether :-) | 16:47 | ||
| and make a more general "pluggable" regex approach | 16:48 | ||
| Voldenet | I think having the syntax for :P5 is better than using perl interpreter, but considering the maintenance cost pluggable regex (with Inline::Perl5) sounds better | ||
| it makes more sense on nqp-js, where js regexes are better fit | 16:50 | ||
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| nemokosch | also, should the "P5 regex" just be a different syntax for the same behavior or different behavior altogether? | 17:24 | |
| I mean capture groups for example - do they nest and turn into arrays for quantifiers? | |||
| tonyo | m: say 'abcdefghijk' ~~ m:P5{(.(.))}; | 17:27 | |
| camelia | ļ½¢abļ½£ 0 => ļ½¢abļ½£ 1 => ļ½¢bļ½£ |
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| tonyo | looks like they do | ||
| nemokosch | hm, fair enough | ||
| actually, what I don't know is how it works in Perl š | 17:28 | ||
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| tonyo | you'd get ['ab', 'a', 'cd', 'd', 'ef', 'f', ...] | 17:47 | |
| m: say 'abcdefghijk' ~~ m:P5:g{(.(.))}; | 17:49 | ||
| camelia | (ļ½¢abļ½£ 0 => ļ½¢abļ½£ 1 => ļ½¢bļ½£ ļ½¢cdļ½£ 0 => ļ½¢cdļ½£ 1 => ļ½¢dļ½£ ļ½¢efļ½£ 0 => ļ½¢efļ½£ 1 => ļ½¢fļ½£ ļ½¢ghļ½£ 0 => ļ½¢ghļ½£ 1 => ļ½¢hļ½£ ļ½¢ijļ½£ 0 => ļ½¢ijļ½£ 1 => ļ½¢jļ½£) |
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| tonyo | contextually in p5 you could use a while over the regex to the data in the same format as raku's return, so it's not entirely unfamiliar | 17:50 | |
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| ScotDog | Hello Everyone! | 17:58 | |
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| ScotDog | Is anyone there? | 18:01 | |
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| ScotDog | What is Raku? I have never heard of it. I am interested! | 18:04 | |
| librasteve | o/ | ||
| raku is the new name for perl6 | |||
| raku.org has some intro info | 18:05 | ||
| ScotDog | Oh that is pretty cool | 18:06 | |
| librasteve | certainly is! | ||
| also the rakudo weekly news is worth a read - rakudoweekly.blog (have to say that or @lizmat will kill me) | 18:09 | ||
| ScotDog | Thank you librasteve! I will check that out | 18:11 | |
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| gfldex | m: spurt("/tmp/\xFEFF.txt", āoiā½ā); slurp("/tmp/\xFEFF.txt").say; | 19:56 | |
| camelia | oiā½ | ||
| gfldex | m: shell('ls -la /tmp').say; | ||
| camelia | total 4876 drwxrwxrwt 1 root root 56306 Jul 19 21:56 . drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 136 Nov 17 2018 .. drwxrwxrwt 1 root root 0 May 26 2015 .ICE-unix drwxrwxrwt 1 root root 0 May 26 2015 .Test-unix drwxrwxrwt 1 root ā¦ |
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| gfldex | m: shell('ls -la /tmp/*.txt').say; | 19:57 | |
| camelia | -rw-r--r-- 1 camelia users 5 Jul 19 21:56 /tmp/ļ»æ.txt Proc.new(in => IO::Pipe, out => IO::Pipe, err => IO::Pipe, exitcode => 0, signal => 0, pid => 11654, command => ("ls -la /tmp/*.txt",)) |
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| gfldex | I better stop now, before I break something. :-> | ||
| :D Windows explorer RMB/Properties doesn't work on that filename. | 20:00 | ||
| No wait, it does! But it takes over a minute to open the dialog. | 20:01 | ||
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| jdv | is there a ctags impl for raku anyone know about? | 21:08 | |
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| [Coke] | blogs.perl.org/users/dmitri/2015/0...erl-6.html | 21:11 | |
| github.com/universal-ctags/ctags/b...erl6.c#L28 | 21:12 | ||
| jdv | i just noticed that | 21:13 | |
| is also maps weird extensions to "perl6" | |||
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| [Coke] | just old. | 21:16 | |
| jdv | yeah... | ||
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| [Coke] | github.com/universal-ctags/ctags/issues/377 | 21:39 | |
| github.com/universal-ctags/ctags/issues/3776 | |||
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| [Coke] | jdv: github.com/universal-ctags/ctags/pull/3777 | 22:20 | |
| Seemed easy enough to take a stab at it, though I'm not sure it's complete. | |||
| jdv | oh neat | 22:57 | |
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