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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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wayland Quick question: does anyone have any ideas about the bug I put in at github.com/salortiz/NativeHelpers-.../issues/12 ? 01:14
NativeHelpers::Blob works fine on my local, but won't install in docker. 01:15
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antononcube @wayland Did you try "PirateMeddlers-Spike" ? 01:57
wayland Neither Google nor I know what PirateMeddlers-Spike is. 02:01
Can you provide a link or something? 02:02
antononcube @wayland Agh, sorry!! "PirateMeddlers-Spike" is just complete opposite of "NativeHelpers-Blob", semantic-wise. 02:04
That joke might be too obscure...
wayland Oh! Haha :D.
No, it's good, I was just assuming it was a reference to something of which I was unaware :) 02:05
Though I might've gone with "ForeignHinderers-Buff" or something. 02:06
antononcube 🙂 Works. 02:07
Mine is more dramatic, though. 😎
wayland Oh, agreed :)
antononcube "Hash::Ordered" -- never made it to work form my purposes... 02:08
wayland Interesting. It worked for me. 02:09
Well, until now :)
antononcube Looking at the Docker file -- it is not clear to me is this the alpine-OS or the Ubunto-OS ? 02:10
wayland I think it's Alpine.
antononcube Meaning, what happens if you try the Ubuntou one. (I think there is one.)
wayland Oh, right. 02:11
antononcube Sorry, cannot find a reference for rakudo-star on Ubuntu. Only this request: github.com/rakudo/star/issues/171 02:14
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wayland I agree there's another Rakudo docker image though. 02:23
hub.docker.com/_/rakudo-star/ has an "alpine" tag, which implies there's a non-alpine version. 02:25
Yeah, bookworm tag is Debian.
antononcube 👍 02:29
Don't shave the GNU too much!
Or -- in this case -- don't shave the whale too much. 02:30
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wayland As in "shave the whales -- they're dying out"? 02:31
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antononcube No, whale is an icon of Docker. I read some time ago that "shaving the GNU" is the process in which, say, you try to install a new driver on Linux, and that brings a cascade of manualy found and done reinstallations. (Which, say, take a whole day.) 02:35
wayland Oh, right! 02:37
I got the Docker = whale reference, but was going for a "save the whales" joke (assuming you hadn't already).
antononcube I always "waste" way too much time with Docker for whatever reasons... 02:38
wayland The "shaving the Gnu" part was a new one on me -- I only thought of Yak Shaving, which is a similar but different reference.
Interesting! Well, it builds on Debian. So I guess I know what I'm using. 02:39
Thanks muchly!
antononcube Hmmm... I cannot find a reference to "shaving the GNU"...
Cannot find a whale equivalent (and too lazy to generate one with AI ) : 02:40
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633...c2c4f&
wayland Haha :) 02:43
antononcube 🙂
@wayland I cannot figure out how you figured out that there is a Debian-rakudo-star.
wayland OK, so it works on the rakudo-star image (both Debian and Alpine), but not the rakuland image. JRaspass: Just thought you might be interested to know, the bug at github.com/salortiz/NativeHelpers-.../issues/12 occurs in the rakuland image, but not in rakudo star. 02:44
www.google.com/search?q=raku+docker+image
Which led to hub.docker.com/_/rakudo-star/ 02:45
That second link has a tag for "alpine". That's often an indication that alpine is only one of the options, and there's also a "bookworm" tag. 02:46
So I Googled "bookworm", and found it's a Debian version.
Keep in mind, my day job is DevOps Engineer :)
HTH,
antononcube ok. Yeah, I did the latte, but did not confirm,,,, 02:47
Good -- thanks!
wayland Anyway, thanks for helping me over the hurdle. Now I can continue developing my tests and Github actions so that I'll have a good environment to develop TOP :) 02:48
(will probably be AFK for a while).
antononcube Good luck! 02:49
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_grenzo cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633...642bf& 10:11
#!/usr/bin/env raku # want to add methods to the IO::Path class use IO::Archive; my @files = "../resources/monitor-bot.tgz".IO.archlist.join("\n").say; #"../resources/monitor-bot.tgz".IO.extract-file("monitor-bot/docker-compose.yml", "../resources").say; "../resources/monitor-bot.tgz".IO.extract-file("monitor-bot/docker-compose.yml").say;
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633...28f64& 10:13
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tbrowder ref discussion of old modules: i still think our module distro system needs a way to mark deprecated or known bad modules. then zef could at least warn about them. 12:22
i have at least one i would like to mark as such. 12:23
antononcube I think@rcmlz has a package quality assessment package. 12:30
ugexe a deprecation message popping up where it didnt before on a system using all the same versions of everything isn't a very backwards compatible approach 13:19
for example im not sure java or rust have a way to mark a package as deprecated once the package has already been released. instead you release a new version with the deprecation stuff included in it, such as the documentation or in `is DEPRECATED` traits of the code 13:20
lizmat ugexe++
ugexe although i guess in this case the deprecation messages wouldnt be popping up at runtime in the code, but only at install time which may not be a concern regarding backcompat 13:21
but yeah there are pros and cons to different approaches 13:22
lizmat fwiw, deprecation message are always shown *after* a program has finished running, from an END block 13:36
and there's also a RAKUDO_NO_DEPRECATIONS env variable 13:37
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tbrowder good info, thnks 13:51
antononcube: i don’t see rcmlz in raku.land… 13:54
ah, found on github 13:55
uses workflows testing….not a local linter 14:00
zef knows about it 14:04
sorry, zef does not know about it 14:07
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librasteve tbrowder: I agree that a way to explictly mark modules as something like "inactive" or "replaced by" would be good ... per the ugexe / lizmat comments and the various background discussions, my guess is that changing an existing module (especially if the author is awol) is a non starter ... for me, actually, this is more about steering potential new or ongoing users of modules to choose the active one, for example 15:22
if module Foo::Bar::ver<4.2.3>:auth<github:jane>:api<1> is inactive, then bob decides to pick it up and release and maintain a new version with the same name Foo::Bar::ver<4.3.0>:auth<github:bob>:api<1> then I suppose the META6.json in the new package could conceivably contain a new field such as `"replaces" : "Foo::Bar<ver4.2.3>:auth<github:jane>:api<1>" ... but I suspect that this would lead to unintended consequences (what
if Jane comes back and disagrees?) So perhaps it would be best to trust that the current system is well thought through in the sense that it allows for this case by allowing different authors to release higher versions with the same package name. That said, I would still lobby for a feature in raku.land that echoes the zef algorithm and "grays out" (and/or reduces the info to a line not a para) older versions of packages where
this is the case to guide users to the latest and greatest.
tbrowder 👍 15:27
ugexe i think the best way to implement this type of behavior is for people to be able to mark a given existing distribution as deprecated through fez somehow. that would add it to a index/database/json file that is nothing but deprecated namespaces. tools like zef could then optionally download that list and mention anytime it resolves to something on that list
tbrowder 👍 15:28
👏
antononcube Hm… isn’t this prone to “obsoleteness bombing” attacks? 15:29
ugexe i dont know what that is 15:30
antononcube Maybe you mean that the only original authors can mark a package as obsolete through fez.
tbrowder and i’m gonna make sure mine are correctly marked with “is DEPRECATED” somehow. 15:31
ugexe yes, it should be implied you need the authority of a given namespace to change anything about it
antononcube Or a few designated people. Not just everyone.
tbrowder ugexe: will zef find “is DEPRECATED” in a module regardless of its location? or should the meta file have it somewhere? 15:34
ugexe zef won't see anything about `is DEPRECATED`
that handles when people run your code that they get a deprecation message 15:35
tbrowder thnx, i look forward to the zef/fez deprecation scheme! 15:41
librasteve 🍬 15:51
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Geth ecosystem/main: ba2958cacf | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | META.list
Remove Text::Wrap

It lives in the zef ecosystem now		 16:29
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tbrowder lizmat: 👍 16:58
and it’s another mi6-managed module now! 17:00
lizmat nnice!
tbrowder skaji’s recent chg to ease PRs works well. 17:01
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