| antononcube | @razord Don't worry -- the average age of Raku programmers is 56. | 00:48 | |
| [Coke] | ... That feels a little high, but not too far off. :) | 00:56 | |
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| lizmat | and yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2024/10/07/2024-41-knowlite/ | 16:52 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | I know it's intentional but seeing Mondrian... | 17:09 | |
| hehe :´) | |||
| lizmat | Pieter Cornelis Mondriaan (Dutch: [ˈpitər kɔrˈneːlɪs ˈmɔndrijaːn]; 7 March 1872 – 1 February 1944), known after 1906 as Piet Mondrian (/piːt ˈmɒndriɑːn/, US also /- ˈmɔːn-/, Dutch: [pit ˈmɔndrijɑn]) | 17:25 | |
| from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_Mondrian | 17:26 | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | yeeee | 17:41 | |
| as I said I know it's intentional | |||
| but he made a lot of pre-war paintings in the city above river | 17:43 | ||
| Mondrian is the name for pharoś TK no? | |||
| or just one of their examples, tbh Pharo is Emacs on roids | 17:44 | ||
| antononcube | @lizmat (and others) What would be the best package to "parse" a Pod6 file into a data structure of sections or/and paragraphs? (Hierarchical or flat.) | ||
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| nijmegenzuigt | lizmatGPT unavailable 😛 | 18:14 | |
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| lizmat | hehe... needed some sustenance :-) | 18:31 | |
| antononcube: would $file.IO.slurp.AST do it for you? | 18:32 | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | wide definition of "parse" | 18:40 | |
| 😄 | |||
| maybe a Racket-esque would be nice for AST representation | 18:43 | ||
| or is there something else in the works? | |||
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| Im working on somewthing with raylib for visual scripting either way but for call stacks; not so sure how Raku AST manipulation + macros is conceptialized | 18:57 | ||
| if global scope 👀 | 18:59 | ||
| timo | can you elaborate on that a bit? what do you mean by "for call stacks"? | 19:01 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | I dont wanna clobber your IRC so I was hoping to find an ez img that shows it | 19:12 | |
| miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1724...T7MpZQ.png | 19:14 | ||
| something akin to that | |||
| antononcube | @lizmat I am not sure, it might work... | 19:18 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | well that still a poor example; but imagine I send "raku message.raku lmao" and ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/3-s2...154120.gif and you'd get the methods that did something or not; it's message dispatching Ruby-style ig 😛 | 19:21 | |
| antononcube | @Arend Aren't you trying to reinvent YAMLScript?! And what is all that racket about Racket?! | 19:23 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | it's more to show the nodes | 19:24 | |
| and where a routine may have picked something up | |||
| it still goes down the full list | |||
| I'll just implement a bare-bones thing | 19:30 | ||
| so it's more clear | |||
| xD | |||
| antononcube | Sorry, I do not understand. Are you trying to make a DSL (and/or a "conversational agent") for a debugger? Of Raku? | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | but it's a node tree with callbacks at the end of it; so you'd want the macros before it or after it turns into bytecode I guess | 19:31 | |
| no not a DSL | 19:33 | ||
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| Raku supports most of it already | 19:41 | ||
| well all of it really, but the question was mostly about macros... | 19:43 | ||
| [Coke] | There is some macro support, but "real" macros won't come until the RakuAST project completes. | 19:46 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | ye and I asked if a DrRacket-esque tool is in the works to show a syntax tree 😛 | 19:47 | |
| and if macros are also runtime/global scope 👀 since thats a hell I avoid :kek: | 19:51 | ||
| would be very lispy tho | 19:53 | ||
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| timo | you can interleave runtime and compile time in raku | 19:57 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | I'll make it in Raku either way so if it ends up being some pharorakumacstein with 0 use but for me it's ok | 19:58 | |
| 🧑🏻🔬 💣 | 19:59 | ||
| timo | as long as you can put it in a docker container, barely anybody will care what it's written in (if it's user-facing, rather than a library others are supposed to use) | 20:11 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | seeing my gripes started with Blender + Octave, Im skipping over Python out of my own volition | 20:15 | |
| hehe | 20:16 | ||
| antononcube | Python: 🤮🤮🤮; Octave: 🤷 | 20:17 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | ever used matlab? I havent, but they say it's similar | 20:18 | |
| antononcube | MATLAB: 🤷 | ||
| That should be read as "MATLAB -- Meh." | 20:19 | ||
| When I worked at Wolfram Research, Inc. (the makers of Mathematica) many of the developers knew MATLAB. | 20:21 | ||
| There is nothing to know, in a sense, it is a simple language. | 20:22 | ||
| At that time, MATLAB was a primary competitor of Mathematica. | 20:23 | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | well theres Julia but my deployment is basically all arm64 | 20:24 | |
| antononcube | Nowadays, I am somewhat puzzled if people use MATLAB. (I do "understand" using Octave.) | ||
| Julia is like Obama. | 20:25 | ||
| Got an award just for showing up. | |||
| It is lowest priority target language of my DSLs. (But it is in the list.) | |||
| nijmegenzuigt | arent you a LLM anyway | 20:26 | |
| [Coke] | no idea what that's referring to. maybe keep any political dings off channel. | ||
| antononcube | If one knows and uses R or Mathematica, Julia is not that needed, or "new", or interesting. | ||
| @Coke The Julia vs Obama analogy is based in facts. (About the award they got.) | 20:27 | ||
| @Arend "arent you a LLM anyway" -- yes and no. I would be forced to deal or know extensively about LLM, regardless of how much I want or like them. | 20:28 | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | sadly I cant use them | 20:29 | |
| "sadly" | |||
| antononcube | They are overrated, but that is hard to convey without first hand experience. | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | unless it's to draw animu waifus | ||
| timo | you can't say that when openai is spending billions of money so that everybody can use their LLMs | 20:30 | |
| antononcube | @timo 🙂 Hence, overrated, right? | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | well I am mostly a freelancer but technically software dev for health sector | ||
| timo | i believe they are overrated, yeah | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | so copilot etc are all no bueno tools | ||
| I already ahve to work with outerspace lojban names | 20:31 | ||
| just to be sure | |||
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| antononcube | I have heard good things about Copilot. I just use Raku-LLM for those kind of task. | 20:32 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | turning co-pilot on and you just added 2 code audits and a few legal reviews 🙂 | ||
| timo | i wish we could have a standard for a central "fuck off with your AI product" switch. kind of like the "do not track" header, but also for desktop applications and whatnot | ||
| antononcube | ("Eat your own dog food", etc.) | ||
| timo | if you make me click an "X" in a popup because i'm not interested in whatever chat assistant or whatever, i will probably not stay with your whatever-it-is | 20:34 | |
| antononcube | @timo Agh, that is the topic I mentioned I won't discuss in my latest published presentation. | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | hypervisor is me life 😢 | ||
| and guix-style deployments lel | |||
| antononcube | @timo Here is one of my slides (as a proof): | 20:35 | |
| cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633...0d13b& | |||
| nijmegenzuigt | but code review is brutal enough with MIT license gettign rejected unless prior clearance | ||
| since there's attribution version and no attribution version | 20:36 | ||
| and they never specify where | |||
| or big brains that put copyright marks liek 2009-2011 in source code | |||
| amazing, Dutch law doesnt work that way; it's now unusable unless I know everyone in that list is in NL 😛 | 20:37 | ||
| antononcube | hypervisor ≈≈≈ AWS? | 20:38 | |
| timo | don't worry about it, just put "No Copyright Intended" in the readme or description or somewhere else visible | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | can be few different things | ||
| but obv not AWS | 20:39 | ||
| antononcube | Hmmm... I think Arend is Dutch, and timo is German. | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | lol who I am is not a secret 🥲 | 20:40 | |
| antononcube | (If I recall correctly... I did not ask an LLM.) | ||
| timo | i'm german, yup | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | Dutch since 1817 or so before then a Prussian! | ||
| antononcube: sometimes Mirage OS 🙂 | 20:42 | ||
| timo, just say you are Dutch for my sake hehe | |||
| antononcube | @timo From/in Karlsruhe? | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | everyone thinks German = lederhosen and dirndls | ||
| and celebrating oktoberfest in 3 diff months | 20:43 | ||
| timo | haven't been in karlsruhe in a little while, i've that set in some places but it's no longer accurate | ||
| antononcube | Learning German helped me learning English. Everyone in my highschool who studied German speaks now both German and English. | ||
| timo | but i don't feel like putting my semi-precise location on line at the moment | 20:44 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | nooo | ||
| you learned Bavarian 😠 | |||
| no one understands Bavarians | 20:45 | ||
| need to get down from the mountains so do they drop a few consonants, take a breather 😛 | |||
| antononcube | Hmm... Danish is like that, for other reasons, I assume. (28 vowels, 6 consunants.) | 20:47 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | Danes drop too many consonants at the start | ||
| lol odin I mean cmon | 20:48 | ||
| well Germans say midweek I guess | |||
| antononcube | When I spoke Danish in Norway people understood me much better than when I spoke Danish in Denmark. | ||
| "midweek" -- Bulgrian and Russian use similar names. | 20:49 | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | I just think of what a Swede would say and switch to e -> jag jeg | ||
| elsker deg etc hest 😛 | |||
| do any of you ever deploy to macOS? | 21:07 | ||
| or Windows for that matter, they'll just deploy Linux 🙂 | 21:08 | ||
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| guifa is about to embark on his first Cro project! | 21:17 | ||
| antononcube | @Arend Deploy what? I mostly work on macOS. | 21:27 | |
| Actually, one of my recent Raku projects passes its tests only macOS. I am having hard time making it work on Linux. (Gave up on Windoes long time ago.) | 21:29 | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | well, WebGL works ig 🥲 | ||
| antononcube | @guifa Good lack! (My first Cro project was "doing it like a Cro.") | ||
| nijmegenzuigt | Windows users can use WSL, macOS ppl something similar right hehe | 21:31 | |
| antononcube | Maybe, but I never succeeded getting a Windows project build in GitHub's Actions. | 21:35 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | been well over a decade since I built something for Windows I think 🤔 | 21:37 | |
| tiled screen Windows 8 yee | |||
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| kinda says everything that I can drop mac, windows and everything else out of my life except whatsapp because gf doesnt want to use anything else | 21:48 | ||
| thats not even vendor lock in lel | |||
| but oh well | 21:49 | ||
| guifa | eegads, so many typos in my README.md of Timezones::ZoneInfo | 22:03 | |
| in bold at the top: "current version of the database 2022f". Then down in the version history "updated to version "2025b" (should be 2024b) | 22:04 | ||
| timo | what's wrong with 2022f? | 22:24 | |
| oh, you mean it's lacking an "is" or something | |||
| maybe a "the" | 22:25 | ||
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| antononcube | @guifa you can use large language models to do the editing corrections for you. | 23:35 | |
| nijmegenzuigt | nah we have you | 23:52 | |
