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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
antononcube @razord Don't worry -- the average age of Raku programmers is 56. 00:48
[Coke] ... That feels a little high, but not too far off. :) 00:56
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lizmat and yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2024/10/07/2024-41-knowlite/ 16:52
nijmegenzuigt I know it's intentional but seeing Mondrian... 17:09
hehe :´)
lizmat Pieter Cornelis Mondriaan (Dutch: [ˈpitər kɔrˈneːlɪs ˈmɔndrijaːn]; 7 March 1872 – 1 February 1944), known after 1906 as Piet Mondrian (/piːt ˈmɒndriɑːn/, US also /- ˈmɔːn-/, Dutch: [pit ˈmɔndrijɑn]) 17:25
from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_Mondrian 17:26
nijmegenzuigt yeeee 17:41
as I said I know it's intentional
but he made a lot of pre-war paintings in the city above river 17:43
Mondrian is the name for pharoś TK no?
or just one of their examples, tbh Pharo is Emacs on roids 17:44
antononcube @lizmat (and others) What would be the best package to "parse" a Pod6 file into a data structure of sections or/and paragraphs? (Hierarchical or flat.)
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nijmegenzuigt lizmatGPT unavailable 😛 18:14
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lizmat hehe... needed some sustenance :-) 18:31
antononcube: would $file.IO.slurp.AST do it for you? 18:32
nijmegenzuigt wide definition of "parse" 18:40
😄
maybe a Racket-esque would be nice for AST representation 18:43
or is there something else in the works?
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Im working on somewthing with raylib for visual scripting either way but for call stacks; not so sure how Raku AST manipulation + macros is conceptialized 18:57
if global scope 👀 18:59
timo can you elaborate on that a bit? what do you mean by "for call stacks"? 19:01
nijmegenzuigt I dont wanna clobber your IRC so I was hoping to find an ez img that shows it 19:12
miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1724...T7MpZQ.png 19:14
something akin to that
antononcube @lizmat I am not sure, it might work... 19:18
nijmegenzuigt well that still a poor example; but imagine I send "raku message.raku lmao" and ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/3-s2...154120.gif and you'd get the methods that did something or not; it's message dispatching Ruby-style ig 😛 19:21
antononcube @Arend Aren't you trying to reinvent YAMLScript?! And what is all that racket about Racket?! 19:23
nijmegenzuigt it's more to show the nodes 19:24
and where a routine may have picked something up
it still goes down the full list
I'll just implement a bare-bones thing 19:30
so it's more clear
xD
antononcube Sorry, I do not understand. Are you trying to make a DSL (and/or a "conversational agent") for a debugger? Of Raku?
nijmegenzuigt but it's a node tree with callbacks at the end of it; so you'd want the macros before it or after it turns into bytecode I guess 19:31
no not a DSL 19:33
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Raku supports most of it already 19:41
well all of it really, but the question was mostly about macros... 19:43
[Coke] There is some macro support, but "real" macros won't come until the RakuAST project completes. 19:46
nijmegenzuigt ye and I asked if a DrRacket-esque tool is in the works to show a syntax tree 😛 19:47
and if macros are also runtime/global scope 👀 since thats a hell I avoid :kek: 19:51
would be very lispy tho 19:53
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timo you can interleave runtime and compile time in raku 19:57
nijmegenzuigt I'll make it in Raku either way so if it ends up being some pharorakumacstein with 0 use but for me it's ok 19:58
🧑🏻‍🔬 💣 19:59
timo as long as you can put it in a docker container, barely anybody will care what it's written in (if it's user-facing, rather than a library others are supposed to use) 20:11
nijmegenzuigt seeing my gripes started with Blender + Octave, Im skipping over Python out of my own volition 20:15
hehe 20:16
antononcube Python: 🤮🤮🤮; Octave: 🤷 20:17
nijmegenzuigt ever used matlab? I havent, but they say it's similar 20:18
antononcube MATLAB: 🤷
That should be read as "MATLAB -- Meh." 20:19
When I worked at Wolfram Research, Inc. (the makers of Mathematica) many of the developers knew MATLAB. 20:21
There is nothing to know, in a sense, it is a simple language. 20:22
At that time, MATLAB was a primary competitor of Mathematica. 20:23
nijmegenzuigt well theres Julia but my deployment is basically all arm64 20:24
antononcube Nowadays, I am somewhat puzzled if people use MATLAB. (I do "understand" using Octave.)
Julia is like Obama. 20:25
Got an award just for showing up.
It is lowest priority target language of my DSLs. (But it is in the list.)
nijmegenzuigt arent you a LLM anyway 20:26
[Coke] no idea what that's referring to. maybe keep any political dings off channel.
antononcube If one knows and uses R or Mathematica, Julia is not that needed, or "new", or interesting.
@Coke The Julia vs Obama analogy is based in facts. (About the award they got.) 20:27
@Arend "arent you a LLM anyway" -- yes and no. I would be forced to deal or know extensively about LLM, regardless of how much I want or like them. 20:28
nijmegenzuigt sadly I cant use them 20:29
"sadly"
antononcube They are overrated, but that is hard to convey without first hand experience.
nijmegenzuigt unless it's to draw animu waifus
timo you can't say that when openai is spending billions of money so that everybody can use their LLMs 20:30
antononcube @timo 🙂 Hence, overrated, right?
nijmegenzuigt well I am mostly a freelancer but technically software dev for health sector
timo i believe they are overrated, yeah
nijmegenzuigt so copilot etc are all no bueno tools
I already ahve to work with outerspace lojban names 20:31
just to be sure
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antononcube I have heard good things about Copilot. I just use Raku-LLM for those kind of task. 20:32
nijmegenzuigt turning co-pilot on and you just added 2 code audits and a few legal reviews 🙂
timo i wish we could have a standard for a central "fuck off with your AI product" switch. kind of like the "do not track" header, but also for desktop applications and whatnot
antononcube ("Eat your own dog food", etc.)
timo if you make me click an "X" in a popup because i'm not interested in whatever chat assistant or whatever, i will probably not stay with your whatever-it-is 20:34
antononcube @timo Agh, that is the topic I mentioned I won't discuss in my latest published presentation.
nijmegenzuigt hypervisor is me life 😢
and guix-style deployments lel
antononcube @timo Here is one of my slides (as a proof): 20:35
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633...0d13b&
nijmegenzuigt but code review is brutal enough with MIT license gettign rejected unless prior clearance
since there's attribution version and no attribution version 20:36
and they never specify where
or big brains that put copyright marks liek 2009-2011 in source code
amazing, Dutch law doesnt work that way; it's now unusable unless I know everyone in that list is in NL 😛 20:37
antononcube hypervisor ≈≈≈ AWS? 20:38
timo don't worry about it, just put "No Copyright Intended" in the readme or description or somewhere else visible
nijmegenzuigt can be few different things
but obv not AWS 20:39
antononcube Hmmm... I think Arend is Dutch, and timo is German.
nijmegenzuigt lol who I am is not a secret 🥲 20:40
antononcube (If I recall correctly... I did not ask an LLM.)
timo i'm german, yup
nijmegenzuigt Dutch since 1817 or so before then a Prussian!
antononcube: sometimes Mirage OS 🙂 20:42
timo, just say you are Dutch for my sake hehe
antononcube @timo From/in Karlsruhe?
nijmegenzuigt everyone thinks German = lederhosen and dirndls
and celebrating oktoberfest in 3 diff months 20:43
timo haven't been in karlsruhe in a little while, i've that set in some places but it's no longer accurate
antononcube Learning German helped me learning English. Everyone in my highschool who studied German speaks now both German and English.
timo but i don't feel like putting my semi-precise location on line at the moment 20:44
nijmegenzuigt nooo
you learned Bavarian 😠
no one understands Bavarians 20:45
need to get down from the mountains so do they drop a few consonants, take a breather 😛
antononcube Hmm... Danish is like that, for other reasons, I assume. (28 vowels, 6 consunants.) 20:47
nijmegenzuigt Danes drop too many consonants at the start
lol odin I mean cmon 20:48
well Germans say midweek I guess
antononcube When I spoke Danish in Norway people understood me much better than when I spoke Danish in Denmark.
"midweek" -- Bulgrian and Russian use similar names. 20:49
nijmegenzuigt I just think of what a Swede would say and switch to e -> jag jeg
elsker deg etc hest 😛
do any of you ever deploy to macOS? 21:07
or Windows for that matter, they'll just deploy Linux 🙂 21:08
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guifa is about to embark on his first Cro project! 21:17
antononcube @Arend Deploy what? I mostly work on macOS. 21:27
Actually, one of my recent Raku projects passes its tests only macOS. I am having hard time making it work on Linux. (Gave up on Windoes long time ago.) 21:29
nijmegenzuigt well, WebGL works ig 🥲
antononcube @guifa Good lack! (My first Cro project was "doing it like a Cro.")
nijmegenzuigt Windows users can use WSL, macOS ppl something similar right hehe 21:31
antononcube Maybe, but I never succeeded getting a Windows project build in GitHub's Actions. 21:35
nijmegenzuigt been well over a decade since I built something for Windows I think 🤔 21:37
tiled screen Windows 8 yee
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kinda says everything that I can drop mac, windows and everything else out of my life except whatsapp because gf doesnt want to use anything else 21:48
thats not even vendor lock in lel
but oh well 21:49
guifa eegads, so many typos in my README.md of Timezones::ZoneInfo 22:03
in bold at the top: "current version of the database 2022f". Then down in the version history "updated to version "2025b" (should be 2024b) 22:04
timo what's wrong with 2022f? 22:24
oh, you mean it's lacking an "is" or something
maybe a "the" 22:25
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antononcube @guifa you can use large language models to do the editing corrections for you. 23:35
nijmegenzuigt nah we have you 23:52

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