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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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guifa apogee_ntv++ 03:52
one thought for the interface
Would there ever be a situation where you'd have two Term::Size objects and they would produce different values?
I ask because if it's unlikely, you might consider a term approach, so I could do something akin to 04:04
use Term::Size; my $area-in-pixels = term-width * term-cell-width + term-height * term-cell-width; (or whatever other naming convention you'd want to use) 04:07
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Voldenet you could have two Term::Size objects: $previous-size and $current-size 04:25
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disbot3 <jubilatious1_98524> @apogee I can abstract the literal word "foo" into a variable, but that's about it: [0] > my $w = "foo"; my regex X { :i $w $ }; say "HELLO FOO" ~~ rx/ <X> /; ļ½¢FOOļ½£ X => ļ½¢FOOļ½£ 08:25
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lizmat .tell librasteve plainvanillaweb.com/index.html perhaps of interest? 10:29
tellable6 lizmat, I'll pass your message to librasteve_
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apogee_ntv guifa: As Voldenet said, you might want to populate a new one on sigwinch and compare 10:31
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apogee_ntv My main use case is getting cell width/height in px to render images at a roughly correct aspect ratio in Kitty/WezTerm 10:49
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SmokeMachine Sorry for insisting on that, but about github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/5929 I would like to know if thatā€™s confusing to everyone and if it would wanted to be changedā€¦ that was I can start investigating on how to do that to create a PR for thatā€¦ 10:54
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SmokeMachine But if people donā€™t think it should change, I shouldnā€™t start investigatingā€¦ 10:55
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apogee_ntv @jubilatious1_98524 I found a lib that makes regexs from perl regex's, RegexUtils - github.com/m-doughty/LLM-Character...ng.rakumod 12:02
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arkiuat SmokeMachine, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. I haven't commented because the issue is kind of over my head 12:30
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apogee_ntv Same, I still feel a bit like a noob trying to comprehend it. 13:03
SmokeMachine My point there is about this: docs.raku.org/language/signatures#..._arguments . The docs says it uses the attribute to destruct the values. But only my tests I saw that If I declare an attribute and a method with the same name, it will use the value returned by the method. But if I do not declare the attribute, it will not use the methodā€¦ I think that instead of using the attribute, it should ignores if there 13:56
are attributes and just use methodsā€¦ I think that would be simpler and more usefulā€¦
m: class A {$.a = 42; method a { 13 }; sub (A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new 13:59
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable $.a used where no 'self' is available
at <tmp>:1
------> class A {$.a<HERE> = 42; method a { 13 }; sub (A (:$a)) {
expecting any of:
term
SmokeMachine m: class A { has $.a = 42; method a { 13 }; sub (A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new 14:00
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 13 }; sub (A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new<HERE><EOL>
expecting any of:
postfix
statement end
statement modifier
statement modiā€¦
SmokeMachine m: class A { has $.a = 42; method a { 13 } }; sub (A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
a used at line 1
SmokeMachine m: class A { has $.a = 42; method a { 13 } }; sub a(A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new 14:01
camelia 13
SmokeMachine m: class A { has $!a = 42; method a { 13 } }; sub a(A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new
camelia (Any)
SmokeMachine m: class A { method a { 13 } }; sub a(A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new
camelia (Any)
SmokeMachine m: class A { has $.a = 42 }; sub a(A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new
camelia 42
SmokeMachine m: class A { has $!a = 42 }; sub a(A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new 14:02
camelia (Any)
SmokeMachine arkiuat, apogee_ntv: šŸ‘†
apogee_ntv Is that not the expected behavior since $.a is public and $!a is private? 14:03
Since a (sub) is outside A (class) it should not be able to directly access $!a? or am I missing something? 14:04
Oh hm, but it's ignoring the method... that seems wrong? idk 14:05
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SmokeMachine On doc, it says it uses attributes and not methodsā€¦ but only that case, the first example (that worked), it should print the attribute value (42) instead of the method one (13) 14:07
I just thought about a problem on my suggestionā€¦ whe then to have more methods than attributes (at least I suppose) and we would need to list all methods (or use a |) 14:15
m: class A { has $.a = 1; has $.b = 2 }; sub a(A (:$a)) { say $a }; a A.new
camelia Unexpected named argument 'b' passed in sub-signature
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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melezhik o/ 17:10
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melezhik Got an interesting case for Sparrow in one of SO questions - superuser.com/a/1910086/2953966 17:10
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melezhik Especially genetic form to print N preceding lines before pattern 17:11
generic 17:12
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SmokeMachine glot.io/snippets/h94f2n4544 17:40
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disbot3 <librasteve> lizmat: thanks for sharing plainvanilla, I think this chatgpt.com/share/68714ec8-8c64-80...ec15b77373 ... TLDR this shit needs a lot of baggage and has some question marks ... harc stack needs just htmx and picocss - all the rest is server side in raku 17:53
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lizmat fwiw, I like the idea of not having to depend on frameworks. 18:04
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disbot3 <librasteve> Air::Base is a base library of custom components that use Air::Component (which is built on SmokeMachine excellent Cromponent module which has a strong central concept which I have butchered a bit). It is possible to imagine Cromponent getting support for Web Component ... but that raises some issues around component build phase and would need raku to JS to load the Shadow DOM, a raku ES Module maybe and then that would kill 18:05
all the HTMX I suppose.
SmokeMachine librasteve: talking about Cromponent, today, or max this weekend, Iā€™m going to release a new version of it, supporting cookies and websocketā€¦ and also a new post on my blog about thatā€¦ 18:09
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to librasteve_
disbot3 <librasteve> I would love to see Cromponent take on this challenge and the prebuilt repository Cro template regular Cromponent is a good candidate for this. I am keen to try and maintain mutual consumption of Cromponent & Air::Component s - ie. they can call each other bidirectionally which SM and I have already checked (needs a rest test). HARC has a more scripty feel 18:10
<librasteve> SmokeMachine: tx for the update .... dont for get to come here and go weekly: url to share 18:11
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SmokeMachine librasteve: what do you mean by build phase, etc? 18:30
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to librasteve_
SmokeMachine We can have stuff running on js without a building phaseā€¦ an example would be: github.com/FCO/MemoizedDOM 18:33
disbot3 <librasteve> I mean that cro templates are added to a repository that is built on run cro 18:44
<librasteve> ah yes MemoizedDOM - that would seem a good building block for Cromponents to implement Web Components ala ES module? 18:45
<librasteve> SmokeMachine: sorry I am giving you the CTO job to build the tricksy new technologies - can't think of anyone better qualified! 18:48
SmokeMachine librasteve: but Cromponent works already with templates?! If Iā€™m not misremembering, It adds a method on your component class with your template already compiled making you own class itā€™s ā€œrepositoryā€ and when using it as a sub/macro it works exactly the same me way Cro template modules are suggested to be createdā€¦ 18:53
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to librasteve_
SmokeMachine github.com/FCO/Cromponent/blob/mai...akumod#L23 18:54
So, what I mean is that the templates on Cromponent are compiled on role composition time, so compile timeā€¦ 18:55
Unless, of course, Iā€™m completely wrongā€¦ 18:56
One thing I think would help using Cromponents would be a way to not need to use &HTML when using a cromponent objectā€¦ 19:03
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disbot3 <librasteve> SmokeMachine: that's what I said - when you go cro run, the Cro templates are compiled (or maybe linked if they were alerady precompiled), no disagreements there 21:10
<librasteve> HARC stack is built on the concept that some web applications benefit from (small pieces of already compiled code) that run at errr run time - so &HTML is crucial to the HARC model - my sincere hope is that we can continue with this "two ways to do it" with Air::Components continuing to use Cromponent latest build and with cross callable components in both directions - do you agree? 21:13
<librasteve> btw I really enjoy collaborating with you - the MOP Meister - and I get blown away every time with you insights into the optimum code shape 21:17
<librasteve> aside - that level of music can only be played on raku ... the stradivarius of languages 21:19
<librasteve> sorry &afk
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arkiuat If I define an attribute in a role, is it possible to apply different constraints to that attribute in the different classes that use that role? 21:54
Usually you'd apply the constraint when declaring the attribute with "has", but this can happen only once, either in the role or in the class. I need for methods in both the role and the class to operate on the attribute, but the constraints that should apply differ in each of the instantiating classes. 21:55
disbot3 <librasteve> you mean like has Int $i
arkiuat role A { has Int $.i }; class B does A { has Int $.i where { 1 <= $_ <= 100 } }
like that, but camelia would spit it out because "has Int $.i" is only allowed one time 21:56
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arkiuat librasteve, yes exactly 21:58
disbot3 <librasteve> well $. is a bit of a toy to "do Python in raku" by autoboilerplate getter/setter methods and FETCH/STORE
arkiuat I think the problem would be the same if I declared it as $!i no? 21:59
disbot3 <librasteve> you will need to change to 2nd gear and use private attrs and write your own setter/getter methods
arkiuat oh really? hrm.
disbot3 <librasteve> its not hard 22:00
arkiuat no, it's starting to make sense already. If the attr is private, I can declare it in both the role and the class, right?
disbot3 <librasteve> yeah and then you can use multi s and raku's awesome type graph and interfaces 22:03
guifa correct: each can only access their own private attr and have no knowledge of the other's (unless they `trust` each other)
arkiuat thanks! 22:05
guifa, what is this 'trust' of which you speak? Because I think I'm going to need them to trust one another (it's all one module)
disbot3 <librasteve> docs.raku.org/language/typesystem#trait_trusts 22:06
arkiuat librasteve++ 22:07
guifa I wonder if augment could make some of this easier lol, I've always hated the need for forward declaration but totally understand why it's needed 22:08
m: use MONKEY-TYPING; class A { has $!foo; method !foo { return-rw $!foo }; method raku { "A.new(foo => $!foo)" } }; class B { has A $.a .= new; method change { $!a!A::foo = 42; self } }; augment class A { trusts B }; say B.new.change; 22:10
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot call private method 'foo' on package 'A' because it does not
trust the 'B' package.
at <tmp>:1
------> A $.a .= new; method change { $!a!A::foo<HERE> = 42; self } }; augment class A { trust
ā€¦
guifa ^^ I feel like this should work
ah but it's being done at compile time that's the issue
not runtime
disbot3 <librasteve> so 1st gear is Python mode, 2nd gear is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID and 99th gear is MOP 22:12
guifa all this said 22:13
if you're thinking you need `trusts`, I'd strongly encourage a rethink in design 22:14
arkiuat guifa, yes, I was just starting to think about defining a type and some subtypes
disbot3 <librasteve> docs.raku.org/type/Numeric#typegraphrelations 22:15
arkiuat that way the constraints can be tied to the subtype definitions instead of the attribute declarations 22:16
jdv lizmat: did you get around to getting whateverable "published"? 22:17
disbot3 <librasteve> yeah you can use subsets and so on with multimethods
<librasteve> and where clauses
SmokeMachine weekly: dev.to/fco/cromponent-new-features-3bhf 22:19
notable6 SmokeMachine, Noted! (weekly)
SmokeMachine librastive: by &HTML I meant <&HTML($cromponent)> 22:25
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lizmat jdv: arg, no... will look at it tomorrow 22:38
guifa lizmat: I *think* videos from TPRC are finally formally posted 22:39
at least I saw a post saying they're going up
so maybe the Raku talks will be up by Monday
lizmat guifa: please post a weekly: with the link, so librasteve can pick it up for the weekly 22:40
guifa lizmat++ librasteve++ will do once I get a link
jdv you asked me to ask. thanks.
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lizmat jdv++ 22:45
afk&
SmokeMachine m: role R[::T = Any] { has T $.a }; class :: does R[Int] {}.new.a.^name.say; class :: does R[Str] {}.new.a.^name.say 22:49
camelia Int
Str
SmokeMachine .tell arkiuat would something like this do what you wanted? `role R[::T = Any] { has T $.a }; class :: does R[Int] {}.new.a.^name.say; class :: does R[Str] {}.new.a.^name.say` 22:50
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to arkiuat
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SmokeMachine m: role R[::T = Any] { has T $.a }; class :: does R[Int] {}.new.a.^name.say; class :: does R[Str] {}.new.a.^name.say; class :: does R {}.new.a.^name.say; 22:53
camelia Int
Str
Any
arkiuat SmokeMachine, I don't think so? B and C do role A; there's an attribute in A that should be constrained differently in B than in C. I think I can do what I need with type definitions, and apply the constraints there. 23:00
tellable6 2025-07-11T22:50:54Z #raku <SmokeMachine> arkiuat would something like this do what you wanted? `role R[::T = Any] { has T $.a }; class :: does R[Int] {}.new.a.^name.say; class :: does R[Str] {}.new.a.^name.say`
arkiuat it's probably not going to be able to raise an error in every single call where I might have an out-of-constraint argument, but in enough calls to be much better than no checking at all 23:02
SmokeMachine On my example R is a role that has an attribute an and Iā€™m creating 2 classes that uses R and where a is Int and on the other itā€™s Strā€¦ 23:03
arkiuat oh i see, that makes sense!
disbot3 <librasteve> by &HTML I meant <&HTML($cromponent)> too tired ... will look again tomorrow 23:04
arkiuat I haven't ever worked with parametrized roles yet, is that what that is?
The documentation for parameterized roles is awfully terse. 23:05
Voldenet yes, however parametrized roles are tested in roast 23:06
github.com/Raku/roast/blob/master/...ype.t#L109
there's more tests on parametrized roles and it's very informative 23:07
arkiuat Voldenet++ 23:08
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arkiuat SmokeMachine, I'm going to try it your way. Great opportunity for me to learn how to use parameterized roles. 23:10
the roast tests are very helpful 23:14
(and even better is the idea that if I can't figure out the doco, I should look at the tests!)
SmokeMachine m: role R[::T = Any] { has T $.a }; class A does R[Int] {}; class B does R[Str] {}; say A.new.a; B.new.a 23:22
camelia (Int)
SmokeMachine m: role R[::T = Any] { has T $.a }; class A does R[Int] {}; class B does R[Str] {}; say A.new.a; say B.new.a 23:24
camelia (Int)
(Str)
arkiuat yep, that's what I'm talking about 23:28
SmokeMachine arkiuat: The type T can also be used on methods 23:31
arkiuat and the roasts tests make it look as if I can just do role R[::T] then class A does role R[Int where { 0 <= $_ <= 99 }] 23:37
I can just put the constraints directly into the supplied parameter
SmokeMachine++
or maybe not. The roast test definitely show type constraints there, but not where-clauses 23:41
SmokeMachine The constraint must be on the role definitionā€¦ 23:43
arkiuat right, I see that now. 23:44
that just means I'll be going back to my original idea of defining a tiny type hierarchy and impose the constraints on the type definitions, then define the classes as filling in the parameter with those types 23:53
that idea fits perfectly with role parameterization 23:54

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