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disbot2 <antononcube> @Coke The Windows GitHub actions / tests of "LLM::Functions" have been "always" failing. And they show the error you reported. There might be a "deeper" problem, so, I will spend some time trying to see what are the reasons for failure. 01:47
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[Coke] Let me know if you need me to test something. 02:02
FWIW, it means I can't use App::Crag on windows 02:06
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[Coke] oh. this is a familiar error. 02:25
you can't do .all ~~ Str:D
it doesn't work on windows for some reason, and hasn't for ages. 02:26
I forget what other module we tripped over that was doing that. They ended up changing the test to not use a junction.
m: say <a b c>.all ~~ Str:D # False on windows 02:27
evalable6 True
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[Coke] thought we had a rakudo ticket for this, don't see one, added github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/6109 02:29
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disbot2 <antononcube> Ok, good. I will make changes, test, and upload a new version within a 4-5 hours. 08:03
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disbot2 <librasteve> I thought this looked like an interesting project (perl LSP written in Rust) as a template for what could be done to make a Raku LSP github.com/EffortlessMetrics/perl-lsp/ 08:57
Voldenet fwiw `say all(<a b c>) ~~ Str:D` does work on windows 09:03
and `say all(<a b c>) ~~ Str:D` doesn't
erm
and `say all(@ = <a b c>) ~~ Str:D` doesn't
quite puzzling
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disbot2 <librasteve> weekly: www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/s/5oO7noad1V 11:46
notable6 librasteve, Noted! (weekly)
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disbot2 <antononcube> I can only deal with Windows installations via GitHub's Windows actions. I usually have enough patience for one or two attempts fiddling with it. 13:18
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disbot2 <antononcube> Unfortunately, is made with Rust... 13:38
<antononcube> @Coke The version 0.5.6 of "LLM::Functions" should not have the installation failing you reported. (Just uploaded that version.) But, otherwise, the Windows GitHub actions of that package are failing. 13:41
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disbot2 <antononcube> @librasteve Why implement another LSP? Raku has LSP implementations for IntelliJ and VS Code. Do you have other IDEs in mind? 13:44
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disbot2 <librasteve> @antononcube I am just repeating what I saw here previoously eg <<<aruniecrisps> @librasteve this is just my humble opinion, but I think the most crucial thing for engaging the next 1000 Raku programmers would be having stuff like a static analyzer and LSP and treesitter grammar>> 14:07
<librasteve> quite likely I am conflating a treesitter LSP vs. the IntelliJ / VSCode LSPs we already have
<antononcube> Oh, yeah, now I remember that discussion. 14:08
<antononcube> BTW, Geany 2.1.0 (July 06, 2025) has officially included Raku as a recognized / supported filetype. 14:09
apogee_ntv Sweet, I used to use Geany. 14:11
disbot2 <antononcube> I tried to use in general and with Raku, but so far have not. Trying out its newest version, though... 14:12
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disbot2 <librasteve> that's cool - my personal opinion is that we have "good enough" tooling (always room for improvement ofc), but that we are lacking a reason for folks to take raku to their boss and say "I wanna build X and raku is the best tool because of Y" 14:17
<antononcube> Now I remember -- geany has fairly unnatural for macOS keybindings. 14:20
<antononcube> It seems that they can be changed programmatically, though. 14:22
apogee_ntv There's a chicken & egg problem really. The reason to take it to the boss and say let's use this fundamentally has to include 'you can hire someone when I leave'. I think building awareness and developer base is how you fix that problem. 14:23
Having had to OK or deny tech choices, a huge part of that is just risk management. If Bob's the only guy who knows Raku, I can't OK it for anything substantial. 14:24
On the other hand there's a great reason to use it in this day & age: token efficiency, Raku is very terse and when you're spending thousands on Claude Enterprise, that matters. 14:25
disbot2 <librasteve> I agree on chicken and egg ... the best way to solve this is set out in the book "crossing the chasm" imo
apogee_ntv I think ecosystem expansion helps too. Cro exists, Cro is good. We need Cro for ML, Cro for TUI, Cro for GUI apps etc. 14:26
Something at that level with that level of documentation.
disbot2 <librasteve> github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/507 14:27
apogee_ntv I just did full Notcurses bindings & Jinja2 template with 99% of the Python impl 14:28
Working on TUI framework atm
disbot2 <librasteve> counter-intuitively to make a general purpose tool (like Raku) successful in general, you first need to focus on a small number of use cases where Raku has a compelling advantage over the alternatives (to overcome the chicken and egg) 14:29
apogee_ntv I think the obvious standout is data transformations, which suits LLMs very well. Grammars are the killer feature imo. 14:30
disbot2 <librasteve> I have also worked on web tooling (Air) with a very small hope that folks would see that for a new Rails type revolution ... my current feeling is that the world is not ready for a new web framework 14:31
<librasteve> lol - did you read the issue already?
apogee_ntv I am reading it 14:32
github.com/m-doughty/Template-Jinj...er.rakumod You just couldn't do this as simply in any other lang.
And thats probably suboptimal, I'm a noob with grammars. 14:34
disbot2 <librasteve> so in a nutshell - I agree that Raku Grammars are the killer feature and that DSLs are the best focus 14:35
apogee_ntv "The risk is that this may not turn out to be a horse." - I think this is my worry with DSL focus, but I agree it's the standout area. 14:37
disbot2 <librasteve> I think we can drive more uptake by working on DSLs and sharing our stories on that vs. the same amount of effort on (say) another LSP 14:38
apogee_ntv I would like a treesitter impl that isnt really slow in nvim :P
disbot2 <librasteve> I also agree on horse risk
apogee_ntv My M4 Max should not chug in nvim lol 14:40
disbot2 <librasteve> but we have to make some bets or we will never drink any Champagne
<librasteve> [it may seem to many that I have forgotten that issue - not so, it is next on my list after Air stubs] 14:42
apogee_ntv I think there's 2 problems that both need solving and imo the issue covers problem 1: getting interest. 14:45
Problem 2 is people bouncing off when something significant that they want isn't there in zef, or looks unmaintained. 14:46
disbot2 <librasteve> there are 40 million active devs in the world - lets say we can interest 100 more of those in Raku, then problem 2 will get some help, eh? 14:47
apogee_ntv Depends which 100 :P 14:48
A lot of those devs are pure 9-5ers with no interest in contributing upstream. OSS contributors is a much smaller proportion.
disbot2 <librasteve> anyway my bet == my tuits and I hope I can convince others to help with the DSL story 14:49
apogee_ntv I might join when I'm done with my ridiculous todo list :D
disbot2 <librasteve> =b
apogee_ntv Just bought 8 A100s so I can have agents running all night now. 14:50
Tired of spending $2000/mo on cloud AI :D 14:52
disbot2 <librasteve> yikes 14:53
[Coke] .seen arkiuat 14:55
tellable6 [Coke], I saw arkiuat 2026-03-27T21:03:23Z in #raku: <arkiuat> nice
apogee_ntv .seen Xliff
tellable6 apogee_ntv, I saw Xliff 2025-07-05T21:33:48Z in #raku: <Xliff> apogee_ntv: I'm not against that approach.
apogee_ntv :(
disbot2 <antononcube> Yeah, in Raku the distance to Cro matters. I do not see as that good though. I think you still have to install with —/test.
apogee_ntv He was working on notcurses a while back and I managed to get that working.
tonyo [Coke]: are you able to test again with most recent? i believe the issue to be fixed et the warnings gone 14:57
[Coke] tonyo: all tests pass, test and install both silent of warnings 15:06
thanks! 15:07
tonyo alright i'll send up 0.18
[Coke] tonyo++\ 15:09
tonyo++ 15:10
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disbot2 <antononcube> @Coke No idea how to fix the rest of the Windows "bugs" of "LLM::Functions". I assume you have to install that package on Window separately with --force-test or --test. 15:33
[Coke] note: just running RAKULIB=. raku t/03-cloning.rakutest does not give the huge warning that 'zef test .' does - it just says that test 5 failed. 15:58
ugexe Is zef linked to a different raku installation that the raku in PATH? 16:00
[Coke] get-command shows them both in rakubrew under moar-2026.03 16:01
antononcube - if I put in a dd before the 5th test in that file, the stop-tokens shows as just []
... which is the same as on linux. 16:03
so your "all" isn't really doing anything anyway, is it? the list is empty 16:04
m: say all() ~~ Str:D
evalable6 True
[Coke] (why is the test is <conditional>, True, and not ok $conditional?) 16:06
tonyo alright 0.0.18 is published
[Coke] tonyo++
ugexe: ah, it's a future test int he list that has all the warning output, nevermind. 16:08
disbot2 <antononcube> @Coke Hmm.. this seems like a rakudo Windows bug, then.
<antononcube> I am not sure is that going to be clearer or not. 16:10
[Coke] That's just the failure on 3. 6 and 7 also die, for different reasons. 16:14
disbot2 <antononcube> Right.
[Coke] I'll see if I can track those down. 16:15
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[Coke] ... ah. 5, which complains about info, is going through a code path that .all ~~ Map:D; in lib/ 16:17
so I'm guessing it's all the same root issue.
and the can't find multi for llm-function... one of the multis has a where clause of .all ~~ Str:D 16:20
so you're off the hook. :)
disbot2 <librasteve> @antononcube I prefer to recommend zef install Cro --/test because the test takes a long time ... otherwise it works fine - to fix that we probably can move a bunch of Cro test out from /t to /xt
<antononcube> @librasteve Ok, good to know. 16:21
<librasteve> (with the exception that if your machine does not have 0.0.0.0 and port open fpor loopback test)
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tonyo i install cro with --/test too 17:46
for exactly that reason ^ 17:47
Geth raku.org: librasteve++ created pull request #312:
Stubs		 17:59
disbot2 <librasteve> on raku.org and stubs ... coke raised concerns that the default Air strategy for routes was an issue for the raku.org site some time back github.com/Raku/raku.org/issues/240 18:03
<librasteve> going forward you just need to go Page.new: :stub<tools> and all will work (alongside the other route method still in play for Air::Components) and a sitemap and robots.txt is generated for you automagically, of course 18:05
<librasteve> sorry it took a while, but quite a deep change so needed me to clear some quality time 18:07
librasteve_ full example (from Air::Examples) www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YVJu70Of 18:09
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disbot2 <simon_sibl> .hug 19:09
huggable6 hugs simon_sibl
disbot2 <simon_sibl> Ah only in #raku I guess not in beginner channel
timo I regularly forget about the existence of the -begginner channel, I should put that in my autojoin list 19:10
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ugexe Voldenet: do you know when say all(@ = <a b c>) ~~ Str:D stopped working on windows? i tried on 2023.04 (I cant try on anything else) and it worked. that is arm though so no jit 20:04
[Coke] oh, I can bisect it. (I'm not sure it ever worked) 20:12
Thanks for the reminder, I should have thought of that.
ugexe the first thing to try would be running with spesh and jit disabled 20:14
[Coke] confirm it also worked for me in 2023.04
I tried that per timo's suggestion earlier, no change. 20:15
ugexe ah nice
[Coke] 2024.01 is the first release it fails in 20:19
I'll do a bisect on the commits between those releases. 20:21
coleman [Coke]++ 20:29
Geth raku.org/main: f45ecfe2b0 | librasteve++ | 21 files
stubs ok
raku.org/main: 2587aebf5f | librasteve++ | META6.json
pin to Air:ver<0.1.16>
raku.org/main: c7f98471cd | librasteve++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 22 files
Merge pull request #312 from librasteve/stubs

Stubs
[Coke] as soon as I reinstall strawberry perl. As soon as I figure out how to run the MSI as an admin. as soon as... 20:32
ugexe winget install -e --id StrawberryPerl.StrawberryPerl 20:37
i dunno if winget helps with the permissions issue 20:38
what if you run with RAKUDO_OPTIMIZE_NOSM=1 20:39
[Coke] yup, that fixes it 20:42
(on 2026.03)
ugexe i got the suggestion from claude in this response where it was asking for more information gist.github.com/ugexe/4e2d80629fde...37510ea58a
[Coke] Added notes to the ticket. 20:44
Weirdly, there were no commits to the optimizer file between those release tags 20:47
so the per-revision bisect probably still needed.
(finally working on the first commit there.)
ok, the first three commits don't build for me 21:00
so, giving up for now 21:02
ugexe i assume it works without the :D? 21:03
[Coke] correct. 21:06
looks like "rakudo-m-early-build" is dying trying to build gen\moar\CORE.c.setting on this old version. Any thoughts? 21:40
return code is the not very helpful 0xff
timo is everything clean, in terms of files and such? 21:45
[Coke] fresh clone 21:46
2023.12 era
timo try turning JIT off 21:48
you probably have a newer windows that requires the setjmp fix in moarvm
[Coke] Thanks, that helped. 21:52
timo "newer windows" really means newer MSVC
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