timo weekly: wakelift.de/2026/03/09/making-your...-the-ways/ 00:28
notable6 timo, Noted! (weekly)
01:48 sibl joined 02:10 hulk joined 02:12 kylese left 02:32 xinming left 02:33 xinming joined 03:15 hulk left, kylese joined 03:16 annamalai joined 06:00 [Coke] left 06:24 kst joined 07:04 sibl left 07:05 sibl joined 07:08 librasteve_ joined 07:14 Sgeo left
librasteve_ weekly: tprc.us/tprc-2026-gsp 07:29
notable6 librasteve_, Noted! (weekly)
07:30 Aedil joined 07:56 [Coke] joined 08:27 abraxxa joined 08:35 abraxxa1 joined 08:37 abraxxa left 09:11 dakkar joined 09:15 abraxxa joined 09:19 abraxxa1 left 09:32 abraxxa2 joined 09:36 abraxxa left 09:38 librasteve_ left 10:05 abraxxa joined 10:09 abraxxa2 left 10:51 sibl left 10:59 sibl joined 11:19 abraxxa1 joined 11:20 sibl left, sibl joined 11:22 librasteve_ joined 11:23 abraxxa left 11:26 sibl left, sibl joined 11:35 sibl left
librasteve_ notable6: weekly 11:38
notable6 librasteve_, 3 notes: gist.github.com/bcc0b77ad9f8182bdb...197e6af09c
13:02 abraxxa joined 13:05 abraxxa1 left 13:18 gabiruh left 13:20 gabiruh joined 14:42 abraxxa left
librasteve_ rakudoweekly.blog/2026/03/10/2026-...g-cragcli/ 14:50
notable6: weekly reset
notable6 librasteve_, Moved existing notes to “weekly_2026-03-10T14:50:47Z”
14:52 abraxxa joined
librasteve news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47324180 <== submitted to HackerNews too ... an upvote or a comment would help to bring Raku attention to a wider audience 15:01
lizmat also: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47320921 15:05
[Coke] quote failure on crag "?<how many elephants per acre in the US>" gives an ugly error. 15:10
*quota 15:12
15:18 human_blip left 15:19 cm_ joined 15:20 cm left, cm_ is now known as cm, human_blip joined
timo librasteve_: the asciinema for Memory seems to suggest you can write `[a b c d]` but the text on the side makes it sound like if you want word quoted lists you have to use `<a b c d>` instead; did the asciinema recording somehow get stuff mixed up in it near the end? 15:25
librasteve_: the data dump tree announcement you linked to is from 2017, it's maybe a bit strange to say you "hope to drive that version soon"? 15:35
15:37 human_blip left 15:39 human_blip joined
timo > Error: X::Comp::AdHoc «Bogus statement» 15:39
maybe not the kind of error you meant to show off in the "Errors" asciinema?
15:52 human_blip left 15:54 human_blip joined 16:15 abraxxa left
aruniecrisps I'll probably be taking a little of a break from Raku and programming on the side for a little bit, I'm working on another side project that I'm trying to finish by mid summer 16:20
librasteve_ [Coke]: thanks for the feedback, one of the challenges with having Raku masquerade as a simple command line tool is to suppress the error ugliness - would you mind posting an issue for that and share the error … that way I can hopefully add another try block 16:27
timo best of luck, aruniecrisps! it can be good to give your brain something fresh and different to chew on every now and again 16:29
librasteve_ timo: many thanks for the bug reports - these are fixed in the code and in test 16:34
librasteve @aruniecrisps sorry to hear you are taking a break ... hope to see you back in a while o/ 16:35
librasteve_ timo: yeah - I did not get much explanation about what “low quality” means but that subreddit seems to be very unhappy about all things AI (which actually I can understand) 16:37
I love the new name!
[Coke] librasteve_: ticket already open, thanks 16:41
librasteve tx! 16:42
17:13 human_blip left 17:16 human_blip joined
aruniecrisps @timo @librasteve thanks for the support you guys, basically it's more that the project I'm working on that uses Raku has been put on the sidelines for a little bit 17:42
timo now that you know you aren't going to touch your project for a little while, perfect time to write down your thoughts on what's next and some extra comments and stuff for what you just did ... I always underestimate how well i can come back and pick something up 17:44
lizmat what timo said :-) 17:45
18:07 dakkar left 18:19 kaskal left 18:20 kaskal joined
librasteve actually got a conversation going www.reddit.com/r/CLI/comments/1rpz...are_button 19:02
19:08 andinus left 19:09 andinus joined
tbrowder Hi, I love this community, but it's been made clean 19:34
*clear that it's osupposed to be welcoming to all people. I must say I'm getting very tired of the Raku Weekly Trump count-down timer. 19:36
perryprog but isn't not acknowledging the harm that the administration has done to, well, all people just as bad if not worse? 19:39
tbrowder Ar 19:40
Are you a US citizen?
perryprog yes
oh, did you mean from an international perspective 19:41
(as opposed to "welcoming to all people" meaning "welcoming to all people regardless of US political affiliation") 19:43
tbrowder yes, comments on a countries politics don't belong here.
perryprog ahhhh 19:44
okay I can agree a bit more with that
I thought you were more saying we weren't being welcoming to people who support trump
tbrowder i support trump and do not appreciate the harm the Democrat party has done to the US 19:47
ugexe ...but you just said comments on a countries politics don't belong here
perryprog o.0 ^
tbrowder i'm just countering your opinion 19:48
ugexe i don't think myself or perryprog has stated an opinion 19:49
i haven't at least
tbrowder uh, perryprog's opinion
perryprog Yeah I'm not gonna continue in this conversation; sorry. 19:50
tbrowder his unsupported statement is a political opinion
and i want the countdown clock removed 19:51
librasteve_ tbrowder: some time back, I learned that business does not mix with politics and religion, well raku is not a business, but I think it should be a welcoming community that works for any human that would like to join (subject to the community rules)
ugexe right, but you said "comments on a countries politics don't belong here", then made a comment on politics. If you feel countering someone elses political opinion was correct, then you really didn't mean "comments on a countries politics don't belong here" 19:52
librasteve_ so, when lizmat asked me to take on the editorship of the weekly, I had a quandary - do I continue the tradition of Trump dislike, or do I change tack
tbrowder but the clock is such a statement
librasteve_ I decided to continue until I heard otherwise 19:53
19:53 abraxxa joined
librasteve_ yes, true - so now I know that this is an issue (for you, for anyone) I think it is time to change tack 19:53
tbrowder yes, thanks 19:54
librasteve_ on balance I would prefer a community where politics and religion is left at the door
tbrowder yes
19:54 abraxxa left 19:56 abraxxa joined 19:58 abraxxa left 20:09 Aedil left
librasteve_ perryprog: appreciate your understanding … I am sure there are many places on the Internet to discuss politics ;-) 20:16
antononcube Also, the Trump countdown clock is probably wrong because there is a large probability that he is going to be impeached. So, if putting such devices in the blog posts, it might be prudent to use several clocks corresponding to a few alternatives of the future (with corresponding proabilities.) 20:40
librasteve perhaps a Junction? 20:42
antononcube Anyway, I am also supporting "no politics here", but if someones feelings toward Trump (or another politician) are so great that they write 100s or 1_000s of lines of Raku code, then so be it.
"Junction" did not occur to me! I was thinking (of course) about this LLM prompt: resources.wolframcloud.com/PromptR...eHistorian 20:44
librasteve really lol 20:45
best use for Ai yet
antononcube I had a "big" presentation on Jupyter chatbooks today, and I considered making examples with "AlternativeHistorian". (Used, "SouthernBelleSpeak" and "Yoda", instead.)
I think the "Interogator" persona is also good. My problem is that I was not sure how well the audience know history and/or like police / CSI shows. 20:46
So, I used the "safe bets." 20:47
librasteve video?
Voldenet …what trump countdown? 20:49
antononcube Agh, I know it is recorded, but I am not sure I would be given the recording itself. That is fine -- I planned to make my recording anyway, since I already rehearsed it and I the know the questions asked during and after.
@Voldenet You have to be somewhat motivated to find it. 20:50
librasteve watching the channel
yeah - like read all the cr*p to the end
Voldenet ah, it's a link on the bototm :D 20:51
I don't think it's a problem, but it's a bit silly to have some arcane politics in there 20:53
antononcube @Voldenet Basically, there is a generic service on the Web that lets you create countdown for any event.
And certain people (or other entities) have made countdowns for various politicians. (Or just one, I do not know...) 20:54
Voldenet you might as well create a countdown for Bolivia's president for example – most people wouldn't care 20:55
20:56 human_blip left 20:58 human_blip joined
antononcube 🤷‍♂️ 21:00
patrickb librasteve_: That datadumptree link points to a 2017 post - almost 9 years ago. Was that an accident?
antononcube @librasteve Somebody mentioned "numbat" in the HN -- I think I have seen "numbat" before, again, in relation to "crag". 21:03
21:03 human_blip left 21:05 human_blip joined
TBH, it is probably not hard to interface to numbat's engine(s) from Raku. Or, have a Wolfram Language implementation of numbat. 21:06
librasteve patrickb: yes, someone tagged here via weekly: 21:07
21:08 [Coke] left
sorry the conversation here preoccupied me www.reddit.com/r/CLI/comments/1rpz...are_button 21:08
ok, fixed that 2017 thing 21:09
21:39 [Coke] joined
[Coke] wow, super disappointing to find out that one of the community is a Trump supporter. Good to know, though, thanks. 21:42
librasteve That's nice! It is like a CLI AI Wolfram Alpha. 21:48
^^ this from the hot chat in Reddit (wrt CragCLI)
antononcube Well, Trump is Biden 2.0+, so, I am not sure what is the point of Trump-supporter or Trump-non-supporter. 21:49
[Coke] wow. Such amazingly bad hot taks. 21:50
*takes
antononcube Right! 21:51
[Coke] Feel free to reach out to me on mail or discord for Raku stuff. Cheers.
21:51 [Coke] left
antononcube Ok 21:52
librasteve Thanks for building cragcli.info! It introduced me to Raku, which brought me full circle back to Perl and to Larry Wall, whose work has been so influential. It’s amazing how your project sparked this connection and reminded me of the impact his languages have had. Really appreciate it! 21:54
antononcube This is exactly the sentiment I want to "inflict" on anyone discussing politics here. 21:55
librasteve Nice work! This is the #2 post on r/CLI today! 22:01
^^ i am hoping that my friends here will head over to this post on Reddit and add to the conversation ... since this is a way to spread the Raku word and get others interested... ;-) 22:03
timo my take on politics, not that anyone asked, is that it's impossible to leave politics out of pretty much anything, but very often, what people mean when they say "politics" is specifically "partisan politics", which yeah, I can support leaving discussion of political parties or individual politicians outside of the door 22:14
librasteve_ timo++ 22:15
timo on the other hand, I could not stomach seeing a statement of explicit support for a party that, for just one example, actively seeks to bring harm to trans people and other queer people, which many friends and people I admire happen to be (though that is not necessary for me to support them) 22:17
and let me immediately add this:
i'm explicitly saying "i don't want partisan politics". i'm not saying "republicans are mean therefore democrats must be the good guys" 22:18
that is a very easy trap to fall into, and I think it's extremely damaging to any attempt at political discourse outside of "red vs blue"
I feel like the two-party system of the US makes that kind of difficulty almost inevitable 22:19
tbrowder: I can obviously not tell you what to do or what to think, but explicitly stating "i support trump" can, in my mind, not be divorced from supporting the kind of harmful rhetoric and actions he and his top officials are bringing against, again as one example, trans and other queer people 22:22
I wish you can find the time to think over what I might mean by all of this? and how you stand in relation to this particular topic - if we go into any other aspects of this topic, the channel might drown in partisan politics discussion, which surely nobody wants 22:24
librasteve hmmm
timo please make double sure that you don't overlook my explicit statement that I disagree with the idea that me saying bad things about trump directly means I think any particular opposition to trump must therefore be good 22:25
antononcube Re: "partisan politics" (in USA) -- It easy to make statements that offend both sides. This, by itself, is very telling. 22:28
librasteve &afk
antononcube But, maybe, we cannot keep the Raku IRC politics-free. So, we can apply "The Matrix" architecture -- every two-three months we can have "you can say anything political" day. (Or for two days.) 22:30
timo due to simply the nature of "politics", I think there is an extremely broad range of things that are political in nature but don't tend to have the problem of derailing topics immediately 22:32
random example, I could say that I have fridays off and could make it my dedicated raku hacking day or something like that. here in germany, there is some political pressure from the government towards getting everybody to work more. 22:34
so whether or not, or to what extent, I can do raku hacking, is annoyingly not just a "everything is political if you scratch off the surface a little bit" thing, but relatively directly an expression of my local government's policies 22:36
tbrowder i'm giving up my ownership of the Raku Advent blog and need someone to accept the transfer as owner. i've already mentioned my intent to lizmat and the reasons for it. 22:38
feel free to pm me 22:39
antononcube Right, I heard that -- some former banker now politician suggested (with pathos) that the people of Germany should work more. Also make more weapons too. (Or maybe it is different one.)
timo thank you for the work you have done
22:42 topnep left 22:43 topnep_ joined
tbrowder timo i appreciate you 22:43
timo I hope you can understand from my explanations so far why I would maybe go as far as saying the raku community cannot (and even should not) afford to attempt to be welcoming to explicit supporters of any political organ or other organization that literally seeks to harm some of the people in it for their identity? (which, again, is just the example I went for already in my previous statements: the 22:59
queer community)
someone can change their political association pretty much freely. but you cannot change the color of your skin, or where you were born 23:01
i hope it's obvious why it's not the same thing to oppose someone for voicing support for some kind of political platform as it would be to oppose someone for their skin color or where they were born 23:02
librasteve Hi, my name is Camelia. I'm the spokesbug for the Raku Programming Language. Raku has been developed by a team of dedicated and enthusiastic open source volunteers, and continues to be developed. You can help too. The only requirement is that you know how to be nice to all kinds of people (and butterflies). 23:05
timo everyone has heard of the "paradox of tolerance", right? being nice to the tormentor of my friend is at the same time being very not nice to that friend. so am I at an impasse? do I have no choice but to throw my friend under the bus because I am honour bound to being friendly to everybody? 23:07
librasteve Karl Popper? 23:08
timo my view is that tolerance, which is not explicitly mentioned by the statement you pasted, is a contract. someone breaks the contract, there's no guarantee they will continue to benefit from it 23:09
not sure i know who that is
librasteve en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance 23:10
timo ah i forgot his name. i don't know anything else about this man though 23:12
in any case. hell of a topic to encounter with a headache 23:13
23:14 Sgeo joined
lizmat wow, that's a lot of backlog to go through 23:19
librasteve yeah - i a bit full circle at the moment 23:20
lizmat since I'm the one who started the "countdown" in the Weekly: I wanted to make clear that I think the USA was going to go through a *very* bad patch in its history
sadly it got even worse than I thought 23:21
librasteve gonna stick with it after all
amen
hate to say it but you were right
lizmat tbrowder: the current US administration has made it impossible for me to meet my friends in the US
and even *if* I were allowed in, chances are that I would get either imprisoned or shot, just for going to the bathroom 23:22
it should be noted though that I am of the believe that the current US administration is not the *cause*, but rather a *result* of a longtime effort in taking away human rights, unless you happen to be a white cis hetero man 23:24
librasteve omg
lizmat so that was my reasoning to start mentioning it in the weekly since January 2025 23:25
note that I didn't link to countdown clock. It was just a mention of number of weeks in... so people who realized what it was about, would know 23:27
and others would just wonder
librasteve yeah - I linked
“We’ve never needed them … They’ll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan … and they did, they stayed a little back, a little off the frontlines,”
timo I somehow thought the weeks were just like "haha it's february 753 2020 hope next year will only be 52 weeks again"
lizmat librasteve: I suggest removing the link... but keeping the week number incremented
librasteve errm - really? 23:28
lizmat yeah.. because my point was about the administration 23:29
timo maybe i noticed it was about the presidential term? not sure, it didn't register as very "important" to me
SmokeMachine About politics: everything is political. That being said, I’ll try to not be extremely explicit on my political opinions if there are not other political opinions being shared here (explicitly or not). And about Trump. I usually see all US presidents the same way… all of them keep bombing global South countries… but Trump is a point out of the curve… but I’m not really sure it it’s personal or a signal of the times and
the current status of the US and the world…
lizmat not about POTUS
*current
because if the current POTUS would leave for whatever reason his term is over, there will be just another one which could possibly be worse 23:30
librasteve I salute your subtle distinction
lizmat all the talk about POTUS is just flooding the zone so that we don't talk about billionaires doing whatever they want, especially with young girls, and about billionaires not paying any tax 23:31
librasteve but my statement to @tbrowder_04810 is that your president has chosen to disrespect the fallen troops of the allies that came to US support in your chosen wars - please consider if I made such a remark about US troops in WW2 23:33
lizmat what the US needs is a presidential Zohran Mamdani imo
also: /me not being able to visit the US, is just very minor collateral damage 23:35
librasteve I prefer not to tell others how to voat
timo with the two-party system of the US, it can easily feel like voting doesn't do anything 23:36
librasteve timo - I live in a 2 party country - actually I feel the opposite - at least you ge twhat you voate for
timo and in terms of making anything better, in general, voting is just the "bare minimum" participation in your country's present and future 23:37
23:38 david7832 joined
lizmat I guess the fact that some rich people sponsor both parties, is a big indication of that 23:38
timo if voting truly didn't matter, one party wouldn't be doing their best to prevent their opponents from voting
lizmat "While many individual, small-dollar donors tend to stick to one party, larger donors and PACs are more likely to split their contributions to ensure access and influence regardless of which party wins.|
librasteve but I think its fair to say that we (the world) are fully disgusted by this choice of the US and hope that you will stop him
lizmat time.com/7383185/profits-took-over...-politics/ 23:39
timo steve, I'm not sure what the differences between the 2 party system in your country is vs what the US has
librasteve beginning to think that Starmer is right
they have it sewn up in primaries, we choose the winner at the election 23:40
timo ah, you're talking about britain?
librasteve yep
timo i'm having real difficulty following british politics and i couldn't even tell you why that is 23:41
librasteve me too
it's quite tribal and very lobbyist powered - we have a lot of small new parties that will disappear soon as the system is highly 2-party 23:42
timo it still feels like the degree to which a "third party" vote is viable in britain is leagues apart from how a third party vote in the US is literally for the trash bin 23:43
librasteve in pratice, not really (research the SDP) 23:44
timo and yes, huge amounts of money being invested in politics is a problem in so, so many countries
librasteve I am now believer in state funded parties
gahhh 23:45
lizmat anyways... my final word on this: you may not want to be bothered by politics, but that won't stop politics bothering you 23:46
timo we could try striving for maximizing our compassion for other people. and since there's literally hundreds of thousands times as many lovable people than politicians, well, i guess the politicians might not get all our love 23:47
SmokeMachine About Britain… I cannot say somewhere that has something called House of Lords and the king can forbid laws in secret cannot be called democratic… (and I live here) 23:48
timo i find it hilarious that there is something called "shadow ministers" and some "shadow whateverelse"s 23:49
anyways, yeah, I've probably added as much useful input to this discussion as I can 23:51

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!