🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is still being worked out
Set by lizmat on 12 August 2021.
mjgardner Um, has anyone else noticed that docs.raku.org and modules.raku.org have been down for a bit today? 01:15
[Coke] was slow for me just now, but now it's coming up fine. 01:19
mjgardner Weird, I can ping it but can’t browse to it, and this reports it’s down: downforeveryoneorjustme.com/modules.raku.org 01:32
moon-child I can't access either either
[Coke] I know historically we've had problems with some ISPs reaching the site. modules is also hanging on load right now... 01:37
now I have a cloudflare error 01:42
mjgardner It’s making it hard to source links for this blog post. 02:07
I thought I might try turning off Wi-Fi on my phone and go through Verizon rather than my home AT&T Internet, but that’s also hanging. 02:18
Also getting Cloudflare Error 522: “An Error 522 means that the request was able to connect to your web server, but that the request didn't finish. The most likely cause is that something on your server is hogging resources.” 02:42
I had similar issues when I was on a shared web host. It’s no fun when a co-tenant can take you down. 02:43
mjgardner And now they’re back. Yay! 02:57
Xliff When using Inline::Perl5 to access modules like Email::MIME, when perl does "Email::MIME->create( header_str => [ ... ])" 05:35
Will that be written out the same, like so: "Email::MIME.create( header_str => [ ... ])"
Because I have the feeling the last version isn't parsing my arguments, properly. 05:36
nine Xliff: looks correct 10:29
at least since Inline-Perl5 version 0.53 10:31
Xliff nine: Yeah, I thought so too until I actually had to throw Data::Dumper into the installed module to see for myself. 11:09
nine: In perl5, naked "key => value" resolves into [ $key, $value ] 11:10
Successive pairs add on to that list. Inline::Perl5 seems to want to take each pair and place them in their own arrayref.
So "key1 => value1, key2 => value2" is "[ [key1 => value1], [key2 => value2] ] instead of "[ $key1, $value1, $key2, $value2 ]" 11:11
It seems the latter is what my module needed.
nine I wouldn't know how that could be the case. Do you have a reduced test case, showing the problem? 11:13
Xliff Not really. Closest thing I have to something that illustrates the problem needs Email::MIME 11:15
nine Should be easy to create a dummy module with a method taking and dumping those args
Xliff gist.github.com/Xliff/8b70f4309f35...01d1cccfdd 11:30
nine: So it's sorted. Inline::Perl5 has been a great help. 11:31
nine Ah, now I understand. foo(a => 1, b => 2) would do what you expect, since I special cased pairs in argument lists. The same is not true when converting arrays. Each array element is converted individually to its Perl equivalent. 11:35
nine But then I'd actually expect something like [Pair->new(...), Pair->new(...), ...] to arrive in Perl 11:36
lizmat And yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2021/08/16/2021-...cumbering/ 14:12
andinus japhb: it prints lots of tput errors on install, unknown terminal type, not enough args for capability, etc 14:14
japhb: if i skip tests then it seems that i'm able to run some examples
japhb: still running examples prints "universal move must have access to tput" error 14:15
andinus there's already an issue regarding multi-platform support (freebsd thread) so i didn't file a new one 14:15
gfldex lizmat: And once again Larry showed great foresight by making the language appealing to childen. For a 100-year langauge we better have plans for a next generation. 14:21
lizmat :-) 14:23
gfldex while we are on the subject of youngsters. On Discord we got #raku-beginner (with many good questions). With a namesake on IRC I could tell the bridge to bridge. 14:32
lizmat gfldex++ # well volunteered :-) 14:34
seriously, I would welcome that very much
gfldex Who is in charge of the irc channels?
lizmat actually, that's a bit misty at the moment 14:36
but there *is* a #raku-beginner channel now
lemme just set up the logging
gfldex a hint in the topic of #raku might be helpful 14:37
and www.raku.org
lizmat 🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is still being worked out. If ypu're a beginner, check out the #raku-beginner channel! 14:41
dakkar lizmat: $topic ~~ s/ypu/you/ 14:45
lizmat 🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is still being worked out. If you're a beginner, check out the #raku-beginner channel! 14:46
lizmat dakkar++ 14:46
dakkar tonyo_: github.com/tony-o/raku-fez says «This project is for 'zef', raku's cool new shiny dist uploader»; is that a typo? 14:51
ens there's a raku discord? 14:54
perryprog Ew.
Altreus there is 14:55
sjn yes, there is a Raku discord
Altreus sometimes people use it
irc is far more active though
El_Che so are irceans 14:56
ens fair enough. but i thought new gen people don't use irc much
maybe i'm just biased. 14:57
Altreus vaguely true
El_Che I thought there were bridges
sjn There are
ens i tried to get my friend on irc and she called it 'the HAM radio of the internet'
sjn tries to find the invitation link to the discord server, but can't seem to find it
altreus™ might even work 14:58
Altreus hey it does
[Coke] irc is the worst. I love the ham radio of the internet analogy, will be stealing that.
Altreus here it is discord.gg/gg2a3T6
ens nice one, btw is discord-raku-bot in raku and open source? i would love to see how it works. 14:59
Altreus it's in #info-and-rules but you have to scroll up
discord-raku-bot: source
all bots should support that
I should probably find some time for API::Discord
sjn Altreus: where did you find it?
ens i coded a discord bot in perl5 but it was such a mess. 15:00
doesn't seem like there's good support for it that i could find anyway.
Altreus sjn: right at the top of #info-and-rules 15:01
ens i have a friend who is coming over this weekend and we are going to do some long coding session to improve our raku knowledge. we are looking forward to it.
Altreus ens: with a hack session on API::Discord? xD 15:02
ens that'd be awesome.
Altreus I was going to do a triage stream ages ago, but I had a bit of a paddy
Altreus I've not really found the wherewithal to pick it up 15:02
ens we are very newbie though... i know perl5 but i don't think perl5 translates very much (i could be wrong)
sjn Altreus: thanks :) 15:03
Altreus ens: start off by understanding it ... which is a challenge because I don't and I wrote it
I have definitely chosen an architecture that I find too difficult to fit in my head
some of that is me trying to make use of what Raku allows for 15:04
El_Che Altreus: in riddle you do talk
Altreus all software is a riddle for humans and clear for computers 15:05
gfldex ens: the bridge-and-eval-bot is pure Raku but not in the public eye yet. The code is still quite gnarly.
ens lizmat: sorry to hear about Robert Lemmen. Seems like quite a prolific guy for raku and in debian project.
lizmat he was more prolific for debian than raku, but yeah :-) 15:06
Altreus yes I saw this go by, but I confess I had never heard of him 15:07
It's sad that his passing was not noted immediately
lizmat yes :-(
Altreus tbf I have no idea how I would make it known if I popped my clogs unexpectedly 15:08
I still wonder what happened to f00li5h 15:09
gfldex that's not really your job
El_Che dead man switch?
I didn't see his name on debian lists besides on the release announcement 15:10
gfldex whereby  I had once a case with a contract, signed by a person who died 5 years prior. 15:11
lizmat Altreus: well, that's just the problem. Contributors sometime just don't have time, and are then just absent
there's generally no reason to expect any other reason
in the case of Jeff Goff and Jonathan Scott Duff, it was much clearer 15:12
but I also guess because I knew them more personally and from conferences as well
Altreus There's no dead man switch that is safe from ADHD 15:13
I pretty much vanished from IRC for quite a long time myself 15:14
mostly cos I forgot to ssh in
Xliff m: sub a { $*?a ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unless $*a >= 10; }; a 16:35
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Expected a term, but found either infix ?? or redundant prefix ?
(to suppress this message, please use a space like ? ?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a { $*?a ??7⏏5 $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unle…
Xliff m: sub a { $?*a ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unless $*a >= 10; }; a
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unsupported use of $? variable; in Raku please use $! for handling child errors also
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a { $?7⏏5*a ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unless $*
Xliff m: sub a { $*?a ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unless $*a >= 10; }; a
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Expected a term, but found either infix ?? or redundant prefix ?
(to suppress this message, please use a space like ? ?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a { $*?a ??7⏏5 $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unle…
Xliff m: sub a { say $*?a ?? 'a IS' !! 'a isn't' }; a 16:36
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Expected a term, but found either infix ?? or redundant prefix ?
(to suppress this message, please use a space like ? ?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a { say $*?a ??7⏏5 'a IS' !! 'a isn't' }; a
Xliff m: sub a { ::('$*a') ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unless $*a >= 10; }; a
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Illegal post-declaration of dynamic variable '$*a'. Earlier access
must be written as 'CALLERS::<$*a>' if that's what you meant.
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a { ::('$*a') ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a7⏏5 …
Xliff m: sub a { DYNAMIC::<$*a> ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a = 0); a unless $*a >= 10; }; a 16:38
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Illegal post-declaration of dynamic variable '$*a'. Earlier access
must be written as 'CALLERS::<$*a>' if that's what you meant.
at <tmp>:1
------> 3b a { DYNAMIC::<$*a> ?? $*a++ !! (my $*a7⏏…
Xliff m: sub a { if DYNAMIC::<$*a> { $*a++ } else { my $*a = 0 }; a() unless $*a >= 10; }; 16:39
camelia ( no output )
Xliff m: sub a { if DYNAMIC::<$*a> { $*a++ } else { my $*a = 0 }; a() unless $*a >= 10; }; a
camelia Dynamic variable $*a not found
in sub a at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: sub a { my $*a = 0 unless DYNAMIC::<$*a>; $*a++; say a() unless $*a >= 10; }; a 16:40
camelia (timeout)
Xliff Huh. I don't think it liked that. 16:41
[Coke] reverse test. 21:34
[Coke] so, how does the discord bridge work? I sent something on #raku there a moment ago, and the last send before that is from Friday. 21:35
cokebot9000 Oh, it works this way. 21:37
[Coke] So, nevermind, I'm an idiot.
[Coke] got in the weekly for deleting several lines of documentation! 22:03
[Coke] will try to do something slightly more worthy this week.
lizmat ++[Coke] 22:45

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