|
🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log available at irclogs.raku.org/raku/live.html . If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel! Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022. |
|||
|
00:01
linkable6 joined,
evalable6 joined
00:07
reportable6 left,
reportable6 joined
00:55
Sankalp left
00:56
Sankalp joined
01:04
clarjon1 joined
01:09
Khwarizmi joined
|
|||
| Khwarizmi | Is anyone available to answer a few beginner questions? #raku-beginner seems dead | 01:34 | |
|
01:42
Khwarizmi left
01:58
p6steve left
02:00
p6steve joined
03:00
coverable6 left,
quotable6 left,
bloatable6 left,
sourceable6 left,
greppable6 left,
linkable6 left,
tellable6 left,
committable6 left,
statisfiable6 left,
releasable6 left,
unicodable6 left,
reportable6 left,
benchable6 left,
shareable6 left,
notable6 left,
nativecallable6 left,
evalable6 left,
bisectable6 left
03:01
quotable6 joined,
reportable6 joined,
bisectable6 joined,
sourceable6 joined,
coverable6 joined,
evalable6 joined
03:02
nativecallable6 joined,
tellable6 joined,
statisfiable6 joined,
linkable6 joined,
releasable6 joined,
greppable6 joined,
benchable6 joined,
notable6 joined,
bloatable6 joined
03:03
committable6 joined,
shareable6 joined
03:04
unicodable6 joined
03:15
deoac joined,
deoac left,
deoac joined
03:16
deoac left
03:19
deoac joined
03:20
deoac26 joined,
deoac left
03:26
andinus left
04:00
deoac26 left
04:35
[Coke] left
05:35
quotable6 left,
bloatable6 left,
sourceable6 left,
statisfiable6 left,
notable6 left,
evalable6 left,
unicodable6 left,
reportable6 left,
bisectable6 left
05:36
linkable6 left,
benchable6 left,
greppable6 left,
nativecallable6 left,
tellable6 left,
shareable6 left,
coverable6 left,
committable6 left,
releasable6 left,
[Coke] joined,
notable6 joined,
releasable6 joined,
unicodable6 joined,
quotable6 joined,
bloatable6 joined,
sourceable6 joined,
shareable6 joined
05:37
greppable6 joined
05:38
bisectable6 joined,
evalable6 joined,
reportable6 joined,
linkable6 joined,
benchable6 joined,
committable6 joined,
coverable6 joined,
nativecallable6 joined
05:39
tellable6 joined,
statisfiable6 joined
05:58
frost joined
06:07
reportable6 left
06:10
reportable6 joined
06:28
cmburn joined
|
|||
| cmburn | Sorry if this is a stupid question, I *want* to use raku, but is there a maintained web framework out there? Best I can tell, only one I saw was abandoned | 06:32 | |
| Currently use Mojolicious | |||
| kjp | cmburn: The usually used web solution for raku is cro -- cro.services | 06:35 | |
| cmburn | Oh great, I hadn't seen that at all, all I'd seen was Bailador which seemed dead | 06:38 | |
| Thanks! | |||
| :) | 06:39 | ||
|
07:04
frost left
07:11
frost joined,
lichtkind joined
07:44
kjp left
07:51
kjp joined
08:20
Guest3 joined
08:23
Tirifto_ left
08:54
Sgeo left
08:56
lichtkind left
08:57
lichtkind joined
|
|||
| Guest3 | Is there any way to replace a method with augment? Still trying the same as yesterday, but "Cannot have a multi candidate for 'message' when an only method is also in the package 'X::Syntax::Confused'" | 09:07 | |
| m: augment class X::Syntax::Confused { method message() { "I am confused" } } | 09:08 | ||
|
09:08
clarjon1 left
|
|||
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> augment not allowed without 'use MONKEY-TYPING' at <tmp>:1 ------> augment class X::Syntax::Confused⏏ { method message() { "I am confused" } expecting any of: generic role |
09:08 | |
| Guest3 | m: use MONKEY; augment class X::Syntax::Confused { method message() { "I am confused" } } | ||
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> Package 'X::Syntax::Confused' already has a method 'message' (did you mean to declare a multi method?) at <tmp>:1 |
||
|
09:17
cmburn left
|
|||
| lizmat | m: class X::Foo is X::Syntax::Confused { method message { "I am foo" } } # why not subclass ? | 09:22 | |
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| Guest3 | I want to change compile time errors' messages | 09:36 | |
| There's not much usefulness to this so it's not a big problem if that's not possible | 09:37 | ||
| lizmat | Guest3: why do you want to change them? Do you think they're unclear / wrong? | 09:38 | |
| if that's the case, maybe a PR would be a better solution ? | |||
| Guest3 | Just for fun, to see how much Raku's internals can be changed, just like we can change the grammar | 09:41 | |
| lizmat | well, you appear to be going for one of the most difficult ones: changing the error message of a compile-time error | 09:42 | |
| then again: | 09:44 | ||
| m: class X::Syntax::Confused is X::Syntax::Confused { method message() { "foo" } }; 32 45 | |||
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> foo at <tmp>:1 ------> fused { method message() { "foo" } }; 32⏏ 45 expecting any of: infix infix stopper statement end statement modifier … |
||
| lizmat | but that would only be in *that* lexical scope | ||
|
09:47
Guest331 joined
|
|||
| Guest331 | lizmat: sorry, lost my internet (and nickname apparently) | 09:47 | |
|
09:47
Guest3 left
|
|||
| Guest331 | Is there any way to change the compile time error message? | 09:47 | |
| lizmat | m: class X::Syntax::Confused is X::Syntax::Confused { method message() { "foo" } }; 32 45 | ||
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> foo at <tmp>:1 ------> fused { method message() { "foo" } }; 32⏏ 45 expecting any of: infix infix stopper statement end statement modifier … |
||
| lizmat | create a subclass with the same name :-) will work lexically | 09:48 | |
| m: class X::Syntax::Confused is X::Syntax::Confused { method message() { "foo: " ~ callsame } }; 32 45 | |||
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> foo: Two terms in a row at <tmp>:1 ------> d message() { "foo: " ~ callsame } }; 32⏏ 45 expecting any of: infix infix stopper statement end sta… |
||
| Guest331 | Damn that's awesome | 09:49 | |
| lizmat | generally speaking: if you want to make changes to the language in a lexical scope, that's pretty easy | 09:50 | |
| changing things globally is a different ballpark and generally not advisable | |||
| Guest331 | Why can't I augment a non-multi method tho? Also why can't I augment roles? | 09:52 | |
| lizmat | again, you can do that lexically | 09:55 | |
| m: role Associative does Associative { } | |||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| Guest331 | Why doesn't augment allow this? | ||
| lizmat | as to the why? because it introduces action at a distance, and that is generally thought to not be a good thing | 09:56 | |
| Guest331 | Isn't augmenting class an action at a distance too? | 09:58 | |
| lizmat | indeed | 10:03 | |
| whereas lexical subclassing isn't | 10:04 | ||
| Guest331 | Then allowing augmenting of classes but not of roles | ||
| lizmat | well, augment was decided upon very early in the development process of Raku | 10:08 | |
| but later, when pre-compilation of modules was developed, turned out to be a design mistake | |||
| well, at least in my opinion :-) | |||
| in a language without pre-compilation, and everything is looked up at runtime, this is different, such as in e.g. Perl | 10:09 | ||
| need to go afk now& | |||
|
10:14
Tirifto joined
|
|||
| nine | If augmenting is the answer to your problem, you may be trying to solve the wrong problem | 10:18 | |
| Geth | doc/operator-table-fix: 68ca383047 | (Daniel Mita)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | assets/js/main.js Fix precedence table ordering Table header names changed in #4031. Closes #4085. |
10:25 | |
| doc: m-dango++ created pull request #4086: Fix precedence table ordering |
10:26 | ||
|
10:33
andinus joined
|
|||
| Guest331 | augment should be deprecated, shouldn't it? | 11:10 | |
|
11:11
lichtkind_ joined
11:14
lichtkind left
11:21
vrurg_ joined,
vrurg left
11:39
frost left
12:07
reportable6 left
12:08
reportable6 joined
12:29
frost joined
12:43
lichtkind_ left
12:56
lichtkind joined
13:08
Guest331 left
13:59
frost left
14:10
Guest3 joined
15:10
benchable6 left,
reportable6 left,
evalable6 left,
coverable6 left,
releasable6 left,
notable6 left,
tellable6 left,
shareable6 left,
bloatable6 left,
greppable6 left,
committable6 left,
bisectable6 left,
quotable6 left,
unicodable6 left,
linkable6 left,
statisfiable6 left,
sourceable6 left,
nativecallable6 left
15:11
nativecallable6 joined,
greppable6 joined,
sourceable6 joined,
reportable6 joined,
linkable6 joined,
benchable6 joined
15:12
quotable6 joined,
unicodable6 joined,
shareable6 joined,
committable6 joined
15:13
evalable6 joined,
tellable6 joined,
coverable6 joined,
releasable6 joined,
bisectable6 joined,
bloatable6 joined,
notable6 joined,
statisfiable6 joined
|
|||
| Anton Antonov | At some I heard in this forum the idea to implement a global setting that prevents random order in hash objects. Is this considered in a more serious manner or it is still "just an idea" ? | 15:28 | |
| At some point I heard in this forum the idea to implement a global setting that prevents random order in hash objects. Is this considered in a more serious manner or it is still "just an idea" ? | |||
|
16:13
linkable6 left,
evalable6 left
16:16
evalable6 joined,
linkable6 joined
16:22
Guest3 left
|
|||
| japhb | Depends what you mean. Associatives are sorted when writing keys out during precomp, so that precomp is repeatable. There are also Hash::Ordered and Map::Ordered modules if you want to have associatives in your own code that track insert order (I use Hash::Ordered fairly regularly, in fact). | 16:53 | |
|
17:01
sena_kun left
|
|||
| Anton Antonov | @japhb Thank you! I will try Hash::Ordered in next 1h... | 17:02 | |
|
17:02
sena_kun joined
|
|||
| Voldenet | I don't think it's sane idea to depend on order of hashes | 17:05 | |
| japhb | Voldenet: There are definite use cases for ordered hashes. For example guaranteed round-trip ordering from unsorted inputs such as config files, so that any changes your code makes to the config hashes don't trash the user's layout. | 17:14 | |
| Anton Antonov | @Voldenet Depends what you want to do. Mathematica, Python, R and have ordered hashes -- very useful feature in data wrangling and visualizations and machine learning algorithms. | 17:15 | |
| @Voldenet Depends what you want to do. Mathematica, Python, and R have ordered hashes -- very useful feature in data wrangling and visualizations and machine learning algorithms. | |||
| Voldenet | but it is usually more useful to simply use arrays or lists | 17:16 | |
| Sure, you get bad Big-Theta lookups with simply using iterables | 17:17 | ||
| but you can just extract (ref -> index) hash for faster lookups | 17:18 | ||
| japhb | Voldenet: One idiom I use is to load data from a file into an ordered hash, so I get the associative I need elsewhere without forgetting the file's ordering, and then cache the .keys and .values from that ordered hash into positionals or iterables for use where those are what I want instead. | 17:25 | |
| So I get the ordering, the associativity, and the steady-state performance. | 17:26 | ||
| Voldenet | Ha, I don't even use the ordered hash | ||
| japhb | In that case, you're probably doing something similar, with extra steps. :-) | 17:27 | |
| Voldenet | m: my @foo = "A".."X"; my &m = {.ord}; @foo.map(&m).first(* ~~ 70).say; my %k = @foo.map({ m($_) => $_ }); say %k{70} | ||
| camelia | 70 F |
||
| Voldenet | that's basically what I do | 17:28 | |
| imo using a library _is_ an extra step | |||
| m: my @foo = "A".."X"; my &m = {.ord}; @foo.first({ m($_) ~~ 70 }).say; my %k = @foo.map({ m($_) => $_ }); say %k{70} | 17:29 | ||
| camelia | F F |
||
| Voldenet | more like this | ||
| japhb | I mean ... to each their own, I suppose. | 17:30 | |
| Voldenet | In the core Hash::Ordered works similarly, but it's hard to apply different indexing strategies that way | 17:33 | |
| so I believe that keeping things as plain data structures inside a class allow easier performance tweaks later | |||
| m: my @foo = "A".."X"; my &m = {.ord}; @foo.first({ m($_) ~~ 70 }).say; my %k = @foo.kv.map({ m($^v) => $^i }); say @foo[%k{70}] | 17:38 | ||
| camelia | F F |
||
| Voldenet | that's what would Hash::Ordered do | 17:39 | |
| Anton Antonov | @Voldenet When I try to execute your first two code examples above I am get the error: [No such method 'ord' for invocant of type 'Any']. (Sorry for being ignorant...) The last one works. | ||
| Voldenet | hm, that would mean that &m was executed without topic variable | 17:42 | |
| it's possible that `my &m -> $_ {.ord};` would work | |||
| erm | |||
| `my &m = -> $_ {.ord};` | |||
| (it's not directly the style I use, I just posted it as an example of the approach I use) | 17:46 | ||
| Anton Antonov | I think during copy-and-paste some characters got lost. On my Discord window I see the code giving errors as [email@hidden.address] m($) => $ })" -- I assume it has to be "$_" , not "$". | 17:47 | |
| I think during copy-and-paste some characters got lost. On my Discord window I see the code giving errors as "@foo.map({ m($) => $ })" -- I assume it has to be "$_" , not "$". | |||
| Nemokosch | Yeah | ||
| Voldenet | Ah, that makes sense | 17:48 | |
| Anton Antonov | @Voldenet Thanks for posting those examples -- I am trying to _not_ use Hash::Ordered. | ||
| Nemokosch | I don't see why using a library (whatever even counts as a library and not the language itself) would be an extra step anyway | 17:49 | |
| Also, in Python, the ordering in hashes made it to the standard, for example | 17:50 | ||
| Voldenet | I've got this irrational fear of dependencies caused by seeing too many react projects | 17:51 | |
| m: role Indexed[$indexer] { method AT-KEY($k) { self.first({ $indexer($_) ~~ $k }) }; }; my $a = [] but Indexed[{.ord}]; $a.push("a"); say $a{97} | 17:52 | ||
| camelia | a | ||
| moritz | Voldenet: call it "learned" and not "irrational" | ||
| Nemokosch | Well it's rather a Pavlovian reflex | 17:55 | |
| "Learned" in that sense | |||
| Voldenet | indeed :) | ||
| Nemokosch | When you implement something by hand, that can very well be a "dependency" - an internalized one | 17:57 | |
| As long as you depend on stuff you are really using, it definitely has certain advantages (as well) | |||
| Voldenet | it can lead to reinventing the wheel (along with the cart, the horse and the road) | 18:00 | |
|
18:02
evalable6 left,
linkable6 left,
linkable6 joined
|
|||
| Nemokosch | This reminds me of the "wisdom culture" in the programmer community | 18:03 | |
| It's so common to have visionary opinions about programming languages, infrastructure, paradigms and so on | 18:04 | ||
|
18:05
evalable6 joined
|
|||
| And honestly they are often interesting | 18:06 | ||
| But they have to be taken with multiple grains of salt because your average wise programmer likes to reduce their model so that only their one key vision remains | |||
|
18:08
reportable6 left,
reportable6 joined
|
|||
| Voldenet | It's always specific to problems encountered in the past | 18:10 | |
| Nemokosch | And often those problems are viewed through the lens of some preconception | 18:14 | |
| Which, again, may not be a problem but it's definitely worth keeping in mind | |||
| Just take a look at the Perl-Raku split... | 18:16 | ||
|
18:19
mexen joined
|
|||
| Voldenet | true, the split only was needed because of the preconception that p6 will eventually replace p5 | 18:22 | |
| and the insanity is that p7 is only caused by that as well | 18:23 | ||
|
18:32
Sgeo joined
|
|||
| Nemokosch | And then everyone has strong feelings and some wisdom why Perl failed, didn't fail, sucks, sticks, you name it | 18:47 | |
|
19:00
mexen left
19:38
sena_kun left
19:39
sena_kun joined
20:35
cine joined
20:47
cine left
20:55
cine joined
20:56
cine left
|
|||
| Geth | doc: uzluisf++ created pull request #4088: Fix URL (#4087) |
21:34 | |
|
21:34
linkable6 left
21:35
linkable6 joined
|
|||
| p6steve | m: sub sbv( %h --> Seq ) {%h.sort(*.value).map(*.key)}; my %x = %(a=>2,b=>0,c=>1); %x.&sbv.say; | 21:40 | |
| camelia | (b c a) | ||
| p6steve | # sorts Hash by value, returns keys (poor woman's Ordered Hash) | ||
| m: sub sbv(%h) {%h.antipairs.sort.map(*.value)}; my %x = %(a=>2,b=>0,c=>1); %x.&sbv.say; | 21:50 | ||
| camelia | (b c a) | ||
| p6steve | (first seems more legible to me) | 21:51 | |
| Voldenet | but not "ordered" like search tree, but "retrievable by stored order" | 22:02 | |
| p6steve | I like this because (i) can use standard raku Hash forward as eg. an index from column label to column number very fast and clear, (ii) sort on column labels is native raku sort on couple hundred items - quite quick (0.95s for 100,000 pairs) | 22:05 | |
| Voldenet: that's right - but my main use case is forward lookup as an index (label => col id) and I imagine that a native raku hash is fast in this direction, the ordered aspect is secondary (eg. to view a list of column name), and is cheap and stateless to do it this way | 22:10 | ||
| and I like that hashes are deliberately unordered -- that means there are two just concepts Array || Hash that can be blended to do a wide range of behaviours | 22:15 | ||
| (too much perl in my youth) | 22:20 | ||
|
22:32
Sgeo left
|
|||
| Geth | docker: MadcapJake++ created pull request #49: Update Rakudo Star to 2022.04 |
23:17 | |
|
23:32
evalable6 left,
linkable6 left,
evalable6 joined
23:34
linkable6 joined
23:41
lucs left
23:42
lucs joined
23:48
lichtkind left
|
|||