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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
Anton Antonov 👍 00:00
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tonyo monads describe a gateway language 00:00
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Anton Antonov And semi-groups prescribe physical processes... 00:03
rf Monads describe nature, Functions describe humans 00:22
tonyo the side effect is more monads 00:38
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rf Perhaps nature is an infinite monad? 01:06
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Anton Antonov @rf no, it is fractal. 01:24
Monads are too simple.
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rf The side-effect is Anton disagrees :) 01:26
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perryprog I can't get over how monads & stuff comes from the mathematical study of donuts and crap 02:47
One of the most fundamental ideas of computer science comes from the folks who like coffee cups and twisted bracelets. 02:48
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lucs Speaking of math, have you guys heard about this?; 03:18
arxiv.org/pdf/2303.10798.pdf
(Aperiodic monotiles) 03:19
rf lucs: Yeah that is a very interesting topic 03:24
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Nemokosch Hm, I wouldn't think monads are particularly relevant for topology 07:55
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Anton Antonov They can just provide nice “narratives” — the computational universe is much richer. (I might be channeling Stephen Wolfram here..) 08:39
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abraxxa I´m trying Raku on Windows (11) for the first time and zef fails to install every module with different errors. Should that work? I´ve installed Raku with the MSI (not Rakudo Star) 13:23
Text::CSV because Zef::Service::Shell::tar fail, my guess is because Windows has no tar command 13:25
lizmat hmmmm ugexe ^^ 13:27
abraxxa File::HomeDir fails because it can´t find a file which is there when I look in Exlorer 13:29
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abraxxa [File::HomeDir] Failed to open file C:\Users\A312318\AppData\Local\Temp\.zef\File%3A%3AHomeDir%3Aver%3C1.0.2%3E%3Aauth%3Cgithub%3Aazawawi%3E.tar.gz\raku-file-homedir-master\.precomp\44915DAEDA6406CD6C8F002F1AE07CF06EA94EF7\5D\5DACBC5E09D57728B09EE6FD5073813AD953B889.repo-id.66781AL5B1MWWODZ3P3BWOLJN.tmp: No such file or directory 13:30
copy´n´pasting that into explorer even works
I could use WSL2 when Raku on Windows is too much hassle but thought I´d give it a try
lizmat abraxxa: sadly we don't have any core developers using WIndows anymore on a day-to-day basis :-( 13:32
abraxxa I FULLY understand that :-)
I was forced by my employer to use Windows after 13 years of Ubuntu (and the switch to Arch happening soon)
lizmat I shut down my last Windows machine about 20 years ago 13:33
Anton Antonov @abraxxa Here are the steps to fix this: 1) Change employer, 2) Go back to using Ubuntu. 13:34
lizmat if it were only so simple :-)
Anton Antonov Of course, that might be easier said than done...
@lizmat Right!! 13:35
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ugexe abraxxa: it is rakus own precomp process that is the issue (so you can reproduce without zef if you wanted) 13:38
in that the paths getting created are beyond the max path length
abraxxa why is the Ubuntu PPA not listed here? rakudo.org/downloads
rf Morning folks
abraxxa ugexe: understood
sorry, didn´t see rakudo-pkg as I was only searching in the Ubuntu section 13:40
ugexe to fix it rakus IO::Spec::Win32 needs to properly parse DOS paths (\\?\ prefixed paths, which are not the same as \\ServerName\UNC type paths), and moarvm or raku then need to use those \\?\ paths internally
abraxxa: you can try setting ZEF_CONFIG_TMPDIR=C:\Temp to shorten the path where zef puts those files which might sneak you under the limit 13:43
abraxxa nevermind, WSL it is
until they block this too as the policy implicitly doesn´ t allow it
ugexe ZEF_CONFIG_TEMPDIR rather
abraxxa so the maximum path length isn´t an absolut Windows limit, else the path wouldn´t have been able to get created, but one of the API Raku uses on Windows? 13:48
lizmat afaik it *is* a semi-absolute limit on some versions of Windows
and yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2023/03/27/2023-13-finitely/ 13:58
Nemokosch Template::Nest::XS wasn't me ^^ 14:00
involuntary plagiarism 😄
lizmat Nemokosch you did the update, according to the commits? 14:04
ah wrong marton 14:05
fixed 14:06
afk&
ugexe abraxxa: one way that might help explain how it works is how nodejs works since both use libuv. node "normalizes" all paths before sending them off to libuv, and part of that normalization involving converting a path that is like over 255 characters (or having a path part over 255 characters) and converting from C:\my\really\long\path to \\?\C:\my\really\long\path 14:10
Nemokosch 😂
I got a bit scared lol 14:11
ugexe and the reason long paths work with the \\?\ is because Windows won't down its own normalization (which isnt the same as the aforementioned node normalization) and validation, sending the path directly through whatever api 14:13
for instance if you use \\?\ paths you cant use / because that is typically handled by windows internal normalization
gist.github.com/ugexe/cadebd4e3e47...ku-L35-L41 14:15
tbrowder__ .tell CIAvash i'm trying to fork Pod::Contents but I can't get an account on your git repo (no email sent to me). i'm trying to download it and will establish my "fork" on github for now. 14:16
tellable6 tbrowder__, I'll pass your message to CIAvash
abraxxa ugexe: interesting, thanks! 14:18
seems like a pretty important feature for Windows support
the FAQ docs.raku.org/language/faq.html says p6doc can be installed using zef for reading local docs, but zef can´t find it 14:24
I guess it was renamed to rakudoc. If that´s correct can someone please update the FAQ? 14:25
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abraxxa anyone familiar with Spreadsheet::XLSX who can tell me how to loop rows of a worksheet? 14:56
the rows attribute seems to be private: modules.raku.org/dist/Spreadsheet:...akumod#L40 15:03
Spreadsheet::Libxlsxio needs a library not included in Debian 15:08
so back to export to CSV in Excel...
or use Perl
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abraxxa I just can´t find out why .grep(/^#/) doesn´t parse 15:48
Unrecognized regex metacharacter , (must be quoted to match literally)
the line number is incorrect two, says two lines after this one
ugexe escape the # probably
(just guessing)
abraxxa why? 15:49
ugexe *shrugs*
abraxxa yes, that seems to fix it
ugexe "The hash character # is not available as a delimiter since it is parsed as the start of a comment that runs until the end of the line." 15:50
abraxxa I´m not trying to use it as a delimiter
perryprog it's considered a metacharacter, so you have to escape it to match the string "#". 15:51
I'm not actually sure what it's a metacharacter for
abraxxa I see, thanks
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perryprog Docs don't seem to say why 15:54
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bpalmer isn't it simply so that you can use comments inside a regular expression? 16:16
perryprog Well, compare that with something like 16:20
m: say "this is some text # and this isn't interpreted as a comment"
camelia this is some text # and this isn't interpreted as a comment
abraxxa what am I doing wrong here? my $cost-center-tag = @tags.first({%cost-center-for-tag{$_}:exists}); 16:21
no ´normal´ usage of the grep and first methods is shown in the docs
lizmat abraxxa: looks ok to me, what is the error ?
Anton Antonov @perryprog I just quoted to a friend your mis-quoting of Lagrange. 16:22
perryprog :)
abraxxa my $cost-center-tag = @tags.first: %cost-center-for-tag{*}:exists; doesn´t work either
Anton Antonov @perryprog Can you listen to this interview ? www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5WZhCBRDpU . Or you hate SW too much 🙂 16:23
lizmat abraxxa: what is the error ?
perryprog Anton, oh yeah I've been meaning to watch that. 16:24
Definitely agree that LLMs acting as a front-end to a more "computational" engine will be a big deal, especially with regard to how awful they currently are at accurate synthesis (that is, when it comes to data comparisons, for instance) as well as memorization of pure facts. 16:25
Anton Antonov I plan to get more impressed by ChatGPT, because SW is impressed by it (them.) 16:32
I this point I think "it is just generative text device."
perryprog It is definitely not "generative text device". I'd recommend getting an account and just playing around with it for a bit. I thought the same thing before I tried it myself. 16:33
Anton Antonov @perryprog I got an account and played with it. 🙂 See "WWW::OpenAI" and "racoons playing with pearls and onions." 16:35
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perryprog (btw is there a uh... #raku-offtopic channel so we can stop interrupting the folks getting help in here?) 16:36
lizmat how about a #raku-pad ?
perryprog pad? 16:37
Anton Antonov Ditto, pad??
Actually, I think that interview by Stephen Wolfram should be listened by anyone here (in this Raku channel) -- he has a very "grammatical" point of view to the universe and its understanding. 16:38
lizmat it was the name of the first off-topic general purpose notesfile on PLATO 16:39
perhaps #raku-talkomatic would be more appropriate :-)
perryprog ... nerd
lizmat en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talkomatic 16:40
perryprog (and TIL)
Anton Antonov 🙂 Well, I am ready to admit that I have polluted the channel...
lizmat I think calling such a channel #raku-offtopic would be too on-topic? 16:43
:-)
well, too descriptive maybe... 16:44
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Anton Antonov Say, "raku-acme" -- we can ask ChatGPT, of course... 17:01
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Here are some ChatGPT suggestions: i.imgur.com/Ut1OeJD.png . 17:43
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Nemokosch I thought it was fairly straightforward in Raku: everything that isn't downright an alphanumeric character, must be escaped or quoted in regular expressions 18:07
I think this is the most sane rule to regex I have ever encountered
you can just quote everything that you don't intend to use with a special meaning, and forget about the struggle to remember what has a another meaning and what doesn't 18:08
anyway, it would be good to know what "doesn't work" meant 18:10
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tonyo guifa: were you able to test on the `dist` branch of fez ? 18:35
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exp i'm currently experiencing 19:35
weird, those packets got through 19:36
wrong channel :)
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guifa tonyo: I have not yet ... just got home now and going to take a look at it hopefully this evening 22:20
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