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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
antononcube I curious about the reasons @nemokosch has that opinion about bash. I might scrape all (bash-bashing) IRC messages by him in order to get a better picture... 13:09
dpk the UNIX-HATERS Handbook has some choice words about shell ‘programming’ 13:10
antononcube @dpk Thanks -- will read (at least a little of it.)
@dpk Maybe you refer to the chapter "The Shell Game"... 13:29
nemokosch I wonder if somebody needs to hate Unix to come to the same conclusions though 13:53
I think it's really easy to summarize 13:54
1. No proper data types
2. No proper variables and scoping
3. No proper control structures or even syntax
I started learning about Tcl and it really seems that's what shell would look like if it were actually designed 13:57
tbrowder__ btw, bash is handy for running raku scripts during module development. 14:00
a raku question, is there any way to specify a class is not to be used with a certain role (or vice versa)? 14:02
antononcube @dpk BTW, the first book I read about R was the "R Inferno". www.burns-stat.com/documents/books...r-inferno/ 14:04
[Coke] tbrowder__: I don't think so, no, unless you have a special meta model that is aware of both the classes and roles. 14:15
(tcl) I spent a lot of time trying to get tcl to work on parrot, which was interesting but never really ended up somewhere useful. 14:16
[puts "hello, partcl"] 14:17
tbrowder__ ah, the answer (at least for my situation) is to use a method instead of an attribute for the conflicting values. 14:24
tbrowder__ [Coke]: thanks 14:49
btw, those having no *nix experience probably have not had a shop with multiple *nix hosts before Win NT came along. 14:52
tbrowder__ bash or csh were required 14:53
tbrowder__ i used perl to runany required tcl stuff 14:55
[Coke] (tcl) once ast lands, maybe adding a new-style Slang for tcl might be interesting. 15:00
[Coke] (but one of the issues there was always that tcl really wants to just embed its own interpreter, not have a reimplementation) 15:26
tonyo . 16:39
tbrowder__ i think i had to capture stderr and stdout and extract wanted items. using perl 4 (went to p5 way later than i should have) 16:43
used expect a bit, too
ugh, hooray raku! 16:44
nemokosch yep, Tcl sounds simple enough to implement within Raku 16:56
and tbh so far the relation really looks like Tcl is a much more shell-ish language than even oldschool Perl 16:57
but yeah, at least it starts to feel like a language with programming language ambitions, rather than eval hacking ambitions 16:58
rf nemokosch: TCL is basically string theory 19:55
tellable6 rf, I'll pass your message to Nemokosch
nemokosch string theory 🤣 20:01
well, astrophysics is cool isn't it
tbrowder__ .tell lizmat: i'm looking for raku volunteers to propose a string of suitable text in their native language (using the two-letter ISO code to identify it) for a font-sampler prog that will accompany my upcoming module 'FontFactory'. a similar request was made for my Date::Names module, but this is much easier (but more artistic in some ways). file the suggested text in a single issue per language. each input should include the 22:04
two-letter ISO code for the language and the desired name for attribution. single lines to fit between the margins of portrait A4 paper are preferred. file issues at github.com/tbrowder/FontFactory. p.s. the inputs can add a preferred font if desired (and it's readily available as a free font, or provide a link to the font).
tellable6 tbrowder__, I'll pass your message to lizmat
Xliff m: say "perl".comb.Bag ⊆ "scriptinglanguage".comb.Bag; 23:40
camelia True
Xliff m: say "perl".comb.Bag ⊊ "scriptinglanguage.comb.Bag 23:41
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> say "perl".comb.Bag⏏ ⊊ "scriptinglanguage.comb.Bag
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
…
Xliff The difference is the use of...
m: 0x22a8.uniname.say
camelia TRUE
Xliff m: chr(0x22a8).uniname.say 23:42
camelia TRUE
Xliff *snarl*
⊆ - Works
vs
⊊ - does not work (0x228a)
Bug? 23:43
Oversight?
If one operator works, the rule of orthogonality says the other should as well.
[Coke] ⊆ - U+002286 - SUBSET OF OR EQUAL TO [Sm] 23:54
⊊ - U+00228A - SUBSET OF WITH NOT EQUAL TO [Sm]

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