🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Log available at irclogs.raku.org/raku/live.html . If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel!
Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
00:01 jpn joined 00:07 lichtkind left 00:08 Manifest0 left
tbrowder__ ok, that worked 00:13
ugexe: that’s good to hear, thanks! 00:14
00:16 jpn left 00:17 ProperNoun left 00:18 jpn joined 00:20 hexology left, hexology joined 00:21 hexology left, hexology joined 00:32 hexology left, hexology joined 00:33 jpn left, jpn joined 00:38 hexology left, hexology joined 01:01 derpydoo joined 01:10 jpn left 01:11 jpn joined 01:38 jpn left 01:39 jpn joined 01:53 jpn left, jpn joined 02:09 jpn left 02:10 jpn joined 02:21 MasterDuke joined 02:23 jpn left 03:04 derpydoo left 04:24 ecocode left 04:29 ecocode joined 05:33 siavash joined 06:26 xinming left 06:29 xinming joined 06:42 abraxxa joined 06:55 sena_kun joined 07:52 Manifest0 joined 07:54 dakkar joined 07:58 spacekookie left 08:01 Sgeo left 08:09 sena_kun left 08:10 sena_kun joined 08:11 jpn joined 08:25 sena_kun left 08:26 sena_kun joined 08:35 ab5tract left 08:51 lichtkind joined 09:18 siavash left 09:30 sena_kun left 10:25 lichtkind left
AlexDaniel ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/alex/git/whateverable/site#sources/8143677EA272A04F4BA3843A02BBD016F5269804 (IO::Socket::Async::SSL) 10:31
Could not find OpenSSL in: …
zef install OpenSSL # candidates are currently installed
All candidates*
so… how do I make it see it? what do I do? I'm trying to install dependencies of whateverable
Using rakudo 2023.09 and zef 0.19.1 10:44
I succeeded by installing depnedencies one by one. This was… not great… 10:53
my best guess is that these modules come preinstalled with rakudo star, which is why I'm not seeing the same issues in docker containers 10:56
10:56 ProperNoun joined
AlexDaniel Merging GLOBAL symbols failed: duplicate definition of symbol SSL 10:58
oh my god -_-
nemokosch >Merging GLOBAL symbols failed: duplicate definition of symbol SSL 10:59
this seems familiar 🥴
AlexDaniel yes? How do I solve it? 11:00
Could not open /home/alex/.raku/sources/D16471B7EF31A659EFE7431A641190D8A130BCB2. Failed to stat file: no such file or directory 11:03
I tried reinstalling OpenSSL package… it reinstalled, now I'm getting this
Xliff Soon to be coming down the pike. Looking for proofers before I finish this one off: dev.to/xliff/working-with-glib-and...bf0b4db64b 11:11
Of course...to finish it off, I have to finish long postponed changes to GLib::HashTable... ^_^ 11:12
AlexDaniel I'm doing the final attempt of installing all star dependencies first and then trying to install deps of whateverable… if that doesn't work then I'm back to working through docker :S 11:28
otherwise I've spent 2 hours already trying to install dependencies 11:29
nemokosch that's madness 11:53
I wonder how stuff like this can just slip through 11:54
12:07 ab5tract joined 12:17 derpydoo joined
AlexDaniel I was able to run whateverable by first installing rakudo star modules and then installing whateverable dependencies 12:54
next problem
Invocant of method 'match' must be a type object of type 'Any', not an object instance of type 'IRC::Client::Message::Privmsg::Channel'.  Did you forget a 'multi'?
this happens to fairly typical whateverable code: github.com/Raku/whateverable/blob/...p6#L68-L76 12:55
lizmat: could it be a regression in IRC::Client itself? 12:56
wait, but 12:58
of course it is a type of any, what else could it possibly be
dakkar `method match(Any:U:)` ? does it explicitly wants an undefined value? 13:13
(guessing at the signature, there, based on the error message)
AlexDaniel dakkar: can you expand on that? I'm not sure I understand. You mean in IRC::Client itself in this case? 13:14
dakkar (again, I'm guessing) the error message says «invocant of method 'match' must be a type object of type Any» 13:15
"a type object" is the thing that's matched by a `:U` qualifier on a type specification (and vaguely corresponds to what perl calls "undefined") 13:16
so I'm wondering if somewhere there's a `method match(Any:U: …)`
which would be a weird thing to have, I think
ooh, reproduced 13:21
(my copying bits of code that seemed relevant)
so the error is almost certainly in whateverable, not in IRC::Client 13:22
(the only bit of IRC::Client I've copied is `role Message`)
AlexDaniel I mean, whateverable used to work :)
dakkar: do you have a reproduction snippet? 13:24
dakkar ok, that `match` is the regex/grammar matching
AlexDaniel yes
dakkar gist.github.com/dakkar/3b5d54bf383...0e25c326d9 13:25
I think I can reduce it
ok, minimised 13:28
`$thing where { m/…/ }` will give that error when given anything that's not a string 13:29
even if it has a `method Str`
even easier… 13:31
m: class X { }; X.new ~~ m/a/
camelia Invocant of method 'match' must be a type object of type 'Any', not an
object instance of type 'X'. Did you forget a 'multi'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
dakkar I say LTA error…
AlexDaniel it's either a regression in IRC::Client or Rakudo itself, the choice is one of the two 13:32
dakkar were messages from IRC::Client always object?
AlexDaniel the code used to work for the last 4 years
yes, they were always an object 13:33
dakkar then something broke in rakudo
because you say `irc-to-me($msg where { m/…/ })` worked, and now we get that error 13:34
something lost a stringification
AlexDaniel lizmat: can you please assist? This is currently keeping a few bots from going up in a useful way
dakkar m: class X { method Str { "aa" } }; X.new ~~ m/a/ # this should work, right?
camelia Invocant of method 'match' must be a type object of type 'Any', not an
object instance of type 'X'. Did you forget a 'multi'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff class X { method Str { "aa" } }; ~X.new ~~ m/a/ 13:35
m: class X { method Str { "aa" } }; ~X.new ~~ m/a/
camelia ( no output )
Xliff Workaround?
AlexDaniel how would I put it into the signature though? 13:36
dakkar sure, but if it used to work and no longer does… it's a regression
Xliff m: class X { method Str { "aa" } }; X.new.Str ~~ m/a/
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel `where ~$msg ~~` ?
if I recall correctly that didn't exactly work sometimes
dakkar AlexDaniel: for example, or `where { $msg.Str ~~ m/…/ }`
AlexDaniel I'll try
Xliff AlexDaniel: where { .Str ~~ m/a/ }
dakkar ah yes, thank Xliff for the correction 13:37
13:38 bisectable6 joined
dakkar (there's still a rakudo problem: either a regression (if it's supposed to work and no longer does), an opportinity to improve the documentation (if it's not supposed to work), but definitely a non-great error message) 13:38
AlexDaniel bisect: class X { method Str { "aa" } }; X.new ~~ m/a/
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Will bisect the whole range automagically because no endpoints were provided, hang tight
AlexDaniel, Output on all releases: gist.github.com/bdee3fa3e0496447b7...60d274d5b8 13:39
AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2020.06 new=2020.07) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
AlexDaniel that's not the right repro
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/6dd879672023f2d26b...f1452f0554
AlexDaniel, (2020-07-06) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5f...9d346fc713
AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2017.04.3 new=2017.05) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/d5194a4676fbd059f1...b13b819d0c
AlexDaniel, (2017-04-24) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c...d2cdc36a94
AlexDaniel please chill bisectable, I'm not interested in error messages :D
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2016.12 new=2017.01) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
13:39 committable6 joined
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/14c3f068b976339bb4...8283456d97 13:40
AlexDaniel, (2016-12-19) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3f...0595e279b1
AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2016.09 new=2016.10) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/3c2386de68db4a2ade...f8833a880f
AlexDaniel, ⚠ New output detected, please review the results manually
AlexDaniel, Output on all releases and bisected commits: gist.github.com/790f48cc948be9c820...fa7e692f37
AlexDaniel oh my god was it me who decided on that behavior
okay I lowered the $changes-limit to reduce spam, but I'm not sure if I lowered it enough to prevent that specific case above 13:43
either way it's gonna be better now
dakkar AlexDaniel++ # improving the tooling 13:45
nemokosch X.new ~~ m/a/ is such a horrible pattern...
dakkar nemokosch: yes, but it's a minimal reproduction for a different problem 13:46
AlexDaniel This workaround actually helps! github.com/AlexDaniel/whateverable...14f293ce1a 13:47
dakkar good!
AlexDaniel well
not great, not terrible
Xliff Sometimes "meh" is grand. 13:48
nemokosch I frankly don't know if this was supposed to work, as in, could be yes, could be no, probably nobody thought about it too hard
AlexDaniel when I was the release manager that didn't make any difference. You can't be just breaking code, especially code that is part of your own tooling and infrastructure 13:50
I have now spent a few days trying to bring whateverable back up on a new server. It's not fun at all
Xliff Are you running whateverable in the cloud or at a colo?
AlexDaniel what's a colo? It's my own dedicated server, but now it's dockerized properly 13:51
any push to the whateverable repo deploys a new version automatically
nemokosch I wouldn't know what you previously did that made a difference with the releases. But let's be frank, I wouldn't trust Blin at this point if it cannot catch its own breakage xD 13:54
... so how was it? No need to pin Rakudo versions because nothing ever breaks and you can just update to the latest always, "duh"? 13:56
Xliff AlexDaniel: OK. Cool. 13:59
14:00 NemokoschKiwi joined
NemokoschKiwi bisectable6: class X { method Str { 'lalala' } }; $_ = X.new;  m/a/ 14:02
bisectable6 NemokoschKiwi, Will bisect the whole range automagically because no endpoints were provided, hang tight
NemokoschKiwi, Output on all releases: gist.github.com/03476c84cccb24a3cf...2dfb6c44c7
NemokoschKiwi, Bisecting by output (old=2020.06 new=2020.07) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
NemokoschKiwi, bisect log: gist.github.com/99a13210db6fe597bd...49e19e3512 14:03
NemokoschKiwi, (2020-07-06) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5f...9d346fc713
NemokoschKiwi, Bisecting by output (old=2017.04.3 new=2017.05) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
NemokoschKiwi as we say, "láttam én már karón varjút"
bisectable6 NemokoschKiwi, bisect log: gist.github.com/53e080ebf3e1c0d9c5...501798b540
NemokoschKiwi, (2017-04-24) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c...d2cdc36a94
NemokoschKiwi, Bisecting by output (old=2016.12 new=2017.01) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
NemokoschKiwi, bisect log: gist.github.com/65d9a97de8ef191100...dee36962e0
NemokoschKiwi, (2016-12-19) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3f...0595e279b1
NemokoschKiwi, Bisecting by output (old=2016.09 new=2016.10) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
NemokoschKiwi but it seems to do the same
bisectable6 NemokoschKiwi, bisect log: gist.github.com/5ca7e16c67df446d4c...7addb703cf 14:04
NemokoschKiwi, ⚠ New output detected, please review the results manually
NemokoschKiwi, Output on all releases and bisected commits: gist.github.com/c91a948c232899418c...a8898a2303
NemokoschKiwi which directs a great amount of suspicion towards `where` 14:06
bisectable: class X { method Str { 'lalala' } }; multi test($x where { m/a/ }) { say 'OH YES' }; try test(X.new); 14:08
bisectable6 NemokoschKiwi, Will bisect the whole range automagically because no endpoints were provided, hang tight
NemokoschKiwi, ¦6c (68 commits): «» 14:09
NemokoschKiwi, Nothing to bisect!
NemokoschKiwi this never dispatched 🤔
14:13 NemokoschKiwi left 14:17 nine left, m_athias left
antononcube @nemokosch is back to New Zealand... 14:17
14:18 nine joined, nine left, nine joined
nemokosch I have no clue what happened there 14:24
14:41 bradford joined, bradford left, bradfordFE joined 14:42 bradfordFE left 15:42 committable6 left, bisectable6 left 15:43 bisectable6 joined 15:45 committable6 joined 15:46 kybr left 15:47 kybr joined 16:33 jpn left 16:36 dakkar left, jpn joined 16:42 Xliff left 16:45 abraxxa left 16:50 nine left, nine joined 17:13 spacekookie joined 17:48 sena_kun joined 18:20 cleo left 18:23 MoC joined
lizmat AlexDaniel: was afk for most of the day... and in no shape to look at IRC::Client issues... will look tomorrow 18:41
19:41 bisectable6 left, committable6 left 19:43 committable6 joined 19:44 bisectable6 joined 19:55 lichtkind joined
codesections All of the (very few) interactions I've had with TimToady have involved him disagreeing with something I said. But they still make me happy, somehow. 20:06
(re github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/389)
20:25 tejr left 20:34 mjgardner left 20:36 mjgardner joined 20:42 MoC left 20:55 sena_kun left 20:56 cleo joined
nemokosch there should be some sort of agreement 21:00
like, after one bike-shedding issue, let's tackle a serious one
jdv i'm with larry on that one. less potential confusion. 21:06
codesections jdv: yeah, fair. I'm really fine with any arrow; I'd just like there to be one 21:13
El_Che I find it interesting that Raku-dians/Raku-tins/Raku-ists/... love to discuss utf8 operators and are proud on how nice the look, while the wider programming world make fun of us because of the untypable operators. 21:45
(just a small almost midnight musing :) )
21:47 jpn left
nemokosch and it's basically just smalltalk material in both directions 21:52
codesections El_Che: :D – or, maybe I should say 😀 21:56
nemokosch About markdown vs pod, though... given that the documentation system is all based around pod6, or rakudoc, as we like to call it these days, it's not realistic
this might sound a bit ironic but I'm not sure what markdown could bring for the project, or what it would even mean to "support it" 21:57
codesections What would be realistic is an easy way to go from Markdown → rakudoc, though
For people who are more comfortable writing md, I mean
nemokosch nobody is forbidden to write markdown, at the end of the day 21:58
and I think it's actually a great feature that there is NO "Raku-flavored markdown"
enough of these flavors already
codesections Agreed. But I'd like a Markdown→rakudoc parser that just supports CommonMark (or some other standard md) with the message "if you want more than this, write actual rakudoc" 21:59
nemokosch @antononcube happens to have a Markdown-converter module 22:01
codesections Oh, interesting. I'll have to take a look at that 22:02
nemokosch I have seen a shirt that I really liked, probably somebody wore it at a protest. It had one sentence written on it 22:04
All you need is less
At the end of the day, there are a lot of topics where one could ask what the point is, like what do you expect from doing it. 22:08
to some extent, the documentation format is also a lower-importance topic I think, and unicode looks for code are quite definitely in that category 22:10
if it's too much fun to miss, maybe it can be done in user space, or at least it should be decided and implemented quickly 22:12
22:22 Sgeo joined 22:39 NemokoschKiwi joined 22:47 NemokoschKiwi left
antononcube @codesections I made the package/module “Markdown::Grammar” in order to convert Markdown documents to notebooks. Other interpreters/converters are to HTML, Org-mode, and Pod6. 22:47
The Pod6 converter is very useful for debugging and testing. I also have demoed that module in a few videos. 22:51
Here is one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UjAdQaKof8 22:52
codesections @antononcube Thanks! I'm not sure how I missed that talk – I thought I'd seen all the Raku talks Fosdem 2022 22:54
antononcube That is/ was not a conference talk. Just an instance of unprovoked marketing. 😛 22:55
23:02 ab5tract left, ab5tract joined 23:04 lichtkind left
codesections @antononcube Oh, I don't know where I got "Fosdem 2022" from. Must be seeing things! 23:18
Unless it's already going to be a part of your Large Language Models talk, it'd make a nice Raku Conf talk for this year 🙂 23:19
antononcube I think my TRC-2023 talk would be an expansion of this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNpIGUAwZB8 23:21
codesections Cool, I'll look forward to it 👍 23:23
23:25 Manifest0 left
jdv AlexDaniel: i can install Whateverable (with passing tests) on 2 boxes of mine. 23:50
both of those boxes are ~2023.08/09. 23:52

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!