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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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wayland .tell ugexe Thanks for the regex tip! I started trying EVAL, but didn't get it working, and assumed there was an easier way. 04:06
tellable6 wayland, I'll pass your message to ugexe
wayland I also send kudos to the LLM people, because someday I'd like to make a too that's like nn8n/nodered, but with LLM, and maybe using tickets as well. 04:09
jdv: I'm the regex expert where I work, and I'm not on either of the Developer teams :p (I'm DevOps) 04:11
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wayland m: sub te($x, $y is copy = Nil) { say $y.raku ; say "$x, $y"; }; te(1) 08:11
camelia Any
Use of uninitialized value element of type Any in string context.
Methods .^name, .raku, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.
1,
in sub te at <tmp> line 1
wayland Why is $y printing out as "Any", rather than Nil? 08:12
Voldenet >When assigned to a container, the Nil value (but not any subclass of Nil) will attempt to revert the container to its default value; if no such default is declared, Raku assumes Any. 08:18
(from docs.raku.org/type/Nil )
one way to fix it would be 08:19
m: sub te($x, $y is raw is copy = Nil) { say $y.raku ; say "$x, $y"; }; te(1) 08:20
camelia Nil
Use of Nil in string context
1,
in sub te at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet but I'm not sure "is raw is copy" makes sense 08:21
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Voldenet to be honest, Nil is overall a bit alien - I remember one convo about it (and its relation to "Failure" type) and it made me convinced that it's difficult to reason about 08:40
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Voldenet m: sub huh() returns Int:D { Nil }; my $x = huh(); my Int:D $y = $x 08:41
camelia Type check failed in assignment to $y; expected Int:D but got Any (Any)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet sure, it makes sense once you know how it's there for Failure handling 08:44
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wayland Thanks! Yeah, it looks like it's a bit odd. I ended up just checking for definedness, which solved my problem :) 11:12
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librasteve o/ 11:24
i could use some help, please
I am trying post -> { form-data -> ::?CLASS $form { ... and get the error The form-data block parameter is of type ::?CLASS, which does not do the Cro::WebApp::Form role 11:25
the post block is in a role and I want to make the class that does the role ("Contact") be applied as the form-data block param type 11:26
if I go note ::?CLASS.^name; just before it says "Contact" so I guess I am close, but how to state it as a type on the param...??? 11:28
the docs is here cro.raku.org/docs/reference/cro-we...The_routes if that helps 11:29
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wayland librasteve: I'm sure there's a reason, but why are you not just going post -> { form-data -> Contact $form { ... 11:39
Or, on the assumption that Contact does Cro::WebApp::Form, maybe post -> { form-data -> Cro::WebApp::Form $form { ... 11:40
librasteve yeah … good question … i want to tuck away the route setup in a role rather than make every form class do it every time 12:31
i suspect that raku can do that but i can’t work out the incantation 12:32
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ab5tract librasteve: I wonder if the experimental version of macros would be able to handle that 13:31
librasteve okay … but this guy ::?CLASS is already there so i hope that I can just use it as a type constraint … maybe as a type capture?? 13:37
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ab5tract m: class C { method c(::?CLASS $c) { "CcC" } }; say C.new.c(C.new) 13:53
camelia CcC
ab5tract m: class C { method c(::?CLASS $c) { "CcC" } }; say C.new.c("oops")
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '$c'; expected C but got Str ("oops")
in method c at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
ab5tract m: role C { method c(::?CLASS $c) { ::?CLASS } }; class D does C {}; say D.new.c(D.new) 13:54
camelia (D)
ab5tract librasteve: so what's missing? :)
ah, I do see that there are issues when using ::?CLASS as a constraint on pointy blocks in the role :( 14:11
m: role R { method r { -> ::?CLASS $c { say $c } }; class C does R { method gist { "onward!" } }; C.new.r(C.new)
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot declare our-scoped class inside of a role
(the scope inside of a role is generic, so there is no unambiguous
package to install the symbol in)
at <tmp>:1
------> ::?CLASS $c { say $c } }; class…
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ab5tract let's see if we can create a capture and use that instead 14:22
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librasteve sorry - long holiday lunch ;-) 14:50
El_Che lo 14:51
tellable6 2025-04-15T19:08:33Z #raku <melezhik> El_Che: - could you please follow up on that irclogs.raku.org/raku/2025-04-14.html#17:31 ? thanks!
librasteve ab5tract: yes - likely that's the problem 14:52
El_Che I will build the packages now 14:56
ab5tract librasteve: turns out I had a missing brackeet :/ 15:06
m: role R { method r { -> ::?CLASS $c { say $c } } }; class C does R { method gist { "onward!" } }; C.new.r()(C.new)
camelia onward!
ab5tract so it does look to work out ok
m: role R { method r { -> ::?CLASS $c { say $c } } }; class C does R { method gist { "onward!" } }; C.new.r()("fail")
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '$c'; expected C but got Str ("fail")
in block at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
librasteve ok ... i'll check 15:07
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El_Che 2025.04 introduced changes that hit alpine: 3rdparty/mimalloc/src/prim/unix/prim.c:34:12: fatal error: linux/prctl.h: No such file or directory 15:32
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jdv what does it mean? 15:35
El_Che that alpine need extra header packages to build
that it does not need with 2025.03
looking at this to figure out which: pkgs.alpinelinux.org/contents?file...&arch= 15:36
jdv github.com/microsoft/mimalloc/issues/1056 ? 15:37
El_Che I added the linux-header package, let's see if it finds the headers and continues 15:40
I just build 2025.03 and that's why I notices the difference right away 15:41
nope 15:42
/usr/include/sys/prctl.h:88:8: error: redefinition of 'struct prctl_mm_map' 15:43
so they do clash
can we rollback the minimalloc version? 15:45
jdv if we just wait it might be fixed by next release:) 15:57
El_Che github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/03...1563f824ef
jdv idk if its worth a point release - that'd be [Coke]'s call i guess
El_Che minimalloc is explicitly bumped 15:58
in 2025.04
I think linux edge is wat most people on container use, I think a dotrelease with a rollback may be a good idea
jdv what's linux edge? 15:59
El_Che sorry
alpine
jdv [Coke]: ^
El_Che edge is their dev release, but not related :)
all alpines break
jdv but they can still use 2025.03, no?
El_Che sure 16:00
jdv or do they auto upgrade their "edge" or whatever apk repo stuff?
El_Che I don't think 2025.04 is in any repo yet 16:01
pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name...aintainer=
I was wrong it is in edge
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El_Che I can try to downgrade mimalloc on moarvm while building, but it's better to have the release manager have a look so I don't break other stuff by downgrading 16:24
mimalloc was bumped from 2.1.7 to 2.2.3 16:26
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[Coke] Hi, back. 18:09
How did we miss that this was a problem pre-release?
Shouldn't one of our CI paths have hit it? 18:10
followup in -dev 18:11
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[Coke] I created a 2025.04.1 branch on MoarVM if someone can do the rollback and test that it's working for el_che's OS. 18:25
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melezhik. . 19:14
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antononcube In one of Jonathan Worthington's presentations I heard the statement: Cro is a system for effectively building distributed systems. 20:00
I assume Cro's primary type of a distributed system is a web application. Are there examples of using Cro for building other types? 20:03
I am trying to figure out can LLM services be utilized in more direct or easier manner using Cro's module/classes. 20:05
Meaning, it would be possible or make sense to have classes like Cro::LLMApp and Cro::LLMSocket that are descendants of Cro::WebApp and Cro::WebSocket respectively. 20:08
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Voldenet it's even said on homepage of cro 20:16
>Cro is a set of libraries for building reactive distributed systems,
and ZeroMQ support sort of hints at what's possible alread 20:17
antononcube Ok. Are there any concrete examples or plans for Cro-creations that are not web apps? 20:28
Voldenet however I'm not sure it can be fully described as framework for distributed systems – it has no basic things like leader election, heartbeats, concept of nodes or sharding
antononcube 💡 Thanks! I was hoping to hear observations or directions like this. 20:29
Voldenet sure, it's possible to roll your own cluster singleton, but it might be difficult to practically implement reliably 20:30
librasteve i’m more positive about cro as a distributed system toolkit … remember the name is my Cro xxx ie micro services … but sure it is not a framework with the stuff that voldenet mentions 20:32
it does provide tools to wire up multiple instances on different machines with channels connecting them and supports various protocols 20:33
that said i am basing what i say on reading the docs … have not tried it and i’m not aware of any actual systems that use this 20:34
antononcube Hmm... that is good to know at seems lower level from what I have in mind. It might be useful I try oranize LLM computations on, say, my own hardware. 20:38
I will be more specific. Currently the Raku LLM funcitonalities are very convenient for making (sequential) computational pipelines. Those pipelines correspond to (simple) "path graphs." I am considering making general graphs at the nodes of which different LLM- or deterministic computations happen. The computations are assumed asynchronous, hence different graph paths can taken at different execution times. 20:40
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Voldenet Channel and Supply can do a lot of work here 20:44
and cro can turn them into network processing tools
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librasteve this is pretty much all that is documented cro.raku.org/docs/cro-yml#Links … possibly you can map your graph onto these links / endpoints … then it is possible iirc to connect raku channels / supplies from one node to another 20:46
but please take this with a rock of salt … i’m just guessing
antononcube I think now that if I use Channel and Supply, then Cro is not that needed. I can just use the LLM functions implemented in Raku. 20:49
Voldenet indeed, only when you need to use N machines or processes it starts making sense
antononcube A certain proof of concept using Channel, Supply, at nodes of graph structures might be a cool thing to do regardless. 20:51
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librasteve sounds interesting 20:52
timo El_Che: are you available to test if using the moarvm branch mimalloc_alpine_fix_for_2025.04_release works fine? 20:56
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wayland76 antononcube: Your LLM comments remind me of my plan to build a nodered/n8n workalike in raku. If you haven't looked at them, have a look :) 22:07
Note: Feel free to take the idea and run with it 22:08
(just let me know if you do) 22:09
antononcube @wayland76 Ok. Where, what link? 22:17
wayland76 The idea isn't written except in the #raku logs, and a failed attempt that wouldn't be useful. Nodered: nodered.org/ N8n: n8n.io/ 22:29
NodeRed is the free one, but there are a few ideas worth taking from n8n as well. If you want an outline of my ideas, let me know, and I'll put something in a gist. 22:30
I'm not sure that LLM is involved in either, but the idea of hooking Cro to a set of Channels/Supplies is what I was thinking of. 22:33
My point was that such a system would be useful in LLM work. 22:35
Like my TOP ideas, I haven't done enough work on them for the ideas to be useful to others :) 22:36
weekly: github.com/wayland/Class-Loader-Dynamic 23:47
notable6 wayland76, Noted! (weekly)

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