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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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coranila m: my \sig = :(Int $a, Str $b); proto f(*@, *%) { if (|@, |%).Capture ~~ sig { say "matched" } }; f 1, "foo"' 02:06
evalable6 (exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compilin…
Raku eval Exit code: 1 ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/glot/main.raku Two terms in a row at /home/glot/main.raku:1 ------> e ~~ sig { say "matched" } }; f 1, "foo"⏏' expecting any of: infix infix stopper postfix statement end statement modifier statement modifier loop
evalable6 coranila, Full output: gist.github.com/935045a401f76f9766...69ff4ceddb
coranila m: my \sig = :(Int $a, Str $b); proto f(*@, *%) { if (|@, |%).Capture ~~ sig { say "matched" } }; f 1, "foo" # hhh
evalable6 (exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compilin…
Raku eval matched
evalable6 coranila, Full output: gist.github.com/2665ec59758d6a7021...e6b32c1ccf
Voldenet m: my \sig = :(Int $a, Str $b); proto f(*@, *%) { if (|@, |%).Capture ~~ sig { say "matched" } }; f 1, "foo" # hhh 02:07
camelia ( no output )
coranila Xliff: you gotta 1) have the signature accessible at compiile time and need a constant as timo said and 2) need to sidestep normal dispatch because Signatures are for introspection 02:09
Voldenet: you're throwing away the parameters in the proto and there's no candidate that cares about them 02:10
that's "in the proto signature" to be precise; :(@) as a placeholder only says "match this, don't bind"
or rather, <sigil> vs <sigil> <topic> is that distinction, between matching Capture shape and biniding Capture arguments 02:11
although i think maybe a functional interface to runtime Routine composition could be cool, not sure what that would look like though 02:12
Voldenet it's the same code you've posted, but on irc, made me quite puzzled because I thought that this should compile
and it indeed compilec 02:13
copiled*
coranila oh! 02:14
that confirms that discord strips _
in the bridge somewhere
I used *@_
and *%_
in the proto signature
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but :(*@, *%) 02:15
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Voldenet ah, probably because you used it not within code block, so that got interpreted as markdown 02:15
coranila yep, i suppose that means i should use code blocks here and rely on the bridge to translate those properly for irc! 02:16
m: my \sig = :(Int $a, Str $b); proto f(*@_, *%_) { if (|@_, |%_).Capture ~~ sig { say "matched" } }; f 1, "foo" # ?
Raku eval Exit code: 1 ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/glot/main.raku Bogus statement at /home/glot/main.raku:1 ------> <BOL>⏏my \sig = :(Int $a, Str $b); proto f( expecting any of: prefix statement list term ```
evalable6 matched
coranila hmmm
so it's either one or the other 02:17
as in, either the bridge gets it right or discord gets it right
...patches welcome? :-)
Voldenet bridge does the correct thing, I guess, assuming it's text you're using 02:18
coranila what else would i be using? speech? images? 02:19
Voldenet I mean, uh, if you wanted to actually use markdown, then it translates things properly 02:20
but markdown collides with code and bridge has no way to know easily
coranila ah but i dont have the choice of usiing markdown or not if i cannot use code blocks
and usinig code blocks means the discord side bot cant parse iit
Voldenet indeed, I'd say that discord bot should understand that
coranila and that's a severe flaw in parity between IRC and discord 02:21
maybe there's a format i dont know for the discord eval bot shrug
does feel a lot like generational friction, which is confusing because I'm almost 40, I'm an elder millennial, i dont belong to IRC or discord, where's my ICQ password :'-) 02:22
Voldenet i think every irc and discord message should include content-type header, that'd solve it ;)
I bet the bot on `comp.lang.raku.misc` would've handled it better 02:26
coranila no clue; usenet is part of a mysterious ancient past to me personally! 02:40
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melezhik. wayland: thanks for feedback . I have updated the first diagram hopefully to make it more readable. As for svg / UML stuff I intentionally wanted to keep things simple and not going into much details, so I thought that ascii graphics would be just enough and some details are intentionally omitted , so those “pictures” are just visual additions to the text. I have split the first paragraph in the Sparrow 05:58
section to separate sentences.
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wayland76 Just while we're talking signatures, I realised that queries (generally, but especially in the Logic Programming sense) are the opposite of functions. With a function, you provide definite data (a capture), and the one with the matching signature is returned. With a query, you effectively provide a signature, and the matching data (a Capture) is returned. 07:19
That's what I was going to try to do with signatures.
(there's more to it than that, but that's a starter 🙂 ) 07:20
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coranila that sounds like given/gather/when/take to md 08:39
*me
maybe &categorize, &classify, or &rotor also can do things in that context? 08:40
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wayland coranila: I was thinking that if you had a table called, say, "People", you could do People($name where * ~~ /^A/, $age where * > 30) or something. 09:23
melezhik: Try this (you may want to tweak it more): Sparrow is a Raku automation framework that provides a full experience for Sparky job developers, without the need for a deep knowledge of Raku. Also, underlying tasks could be written in any of the many languages supported by the framework. The following is a simple diagram of Sparky-Sparrow integration: 09:27
coranila m: class Person { has $.age; has $.name }; given new Person: :39age, name => <crnl> -> $_ { when *.age > 35 && *.name eq "crnl" { say "hey thats me!" }; default { .say } } 09:30
evalable6 hey thats me!
coranila wayland: that look about right?
there's also some unpacking syntax I don't remember right now that lets you put the results of *.name and *.age into a variable for the block directly 09:33
something like @($head, *@tail) i think, but maybe that doesn't generalize to arbitrary methods, or at least not easily; as i said, i don't recall the precise syntax :-) 09:34
wayland coranila: Yes, but that's only one person; I'm thinking it would be a collection. I have to admit, I'm kind of avoiding thinking about this until after I sort out Table-Oriented Programming more, because I don't really know Logic Programming (I've read about it, but not done much), and I think I still have more thinking to do about it. 09:37
I'm wanting to get some of these declarative-type structures into Raku (ie. as Slangs), but haven't got my thoughts nailed down well enough to do it yet :) .
coranila well you can m %age-groups = @people.categorize({ $_.age div 5 }) or such 09:38
*my %age-groups
or is that &classify? i admit i'm not 100% on the semantics between those two! 09:39
wayland Yeah, that might end up being the go.
Thanks!
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Voldenet the diff is that classify groups by single value, categorize puts elements in categories 09:55
so you can have item in multiple categories 09:56
coranila ah, so classify({.age}) and categorize({ .age div 5 })? 09:57
Voldenet e.g. my %groups = @people.categorize({ $_.age div 5, $_.income })
maybe some concrete example 09:58
m: say (^10).categorize({ ($_ %% 2 ?? "even" !! "odd"), ($_ %% 3 ?? |("div 3") !! |()) })
camelia {div 3 => [0 3 6 9], even => [0 2 4 6 8], odd => [1 3 5 7 9]}
Voldenet m: say (^10).classify(*.is-prime) 09:59
camelia {False => [0 1 4 6 8 9], True => [2 3 5 7]}
coranila m: my @ten = ^10; .say for @ten.classify(&so), @ten.classify(.&{+]); 10:08
evalable6 (exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compilin…
Raku eval Exit code: 1 ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/glot/main.raku Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found. Did you mean + to be an opening bracket for a declarator block? at /home/glot/main.raku:1 ------> r @ten.classify(&so), @ten.classify(.&{+⏏]); expecting any of: prefix
evalable6 coranila, Full output: gist.github.com/62e8ef093577250624...ac9e1f5e51
coranila ah of course not dotty, silly me ..
m: my @ten = ^10; .say for @ten.classify(&so), @ten.classify(&{+]); 10:09
Raku eval Exit code: 1 ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/glot/main.raku Prefix + requires an argument, but no valid term found. Did you mean + to be an opening bracket for a declarator block? at /home/glot/main.raku:1 ------> or @ten.classify(&so), @ten.classify(&{+⏏]); expecting any of: prefix
evalable6 (exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compilin…
coranila, Full output: gist.github.com/d0904e048bc32720ad...c82350ebd1
coranila oh hm!
m: my @ten = ^10; .say for @ten.classify(&so), @ten.classify(&[+]); # there we go! 10:11
evalable6 {False => [0], True => [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]}
{0 => [0], 1 => [1], 2 => [2], 3 => [3], 4 => [4], 5 => [5], 6 => [6], 7 => [7], 8 => [8], 9 => [9]}
Raku eval {False => [0], True => [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]} {0 => [0], 1 => [1], 2 => [2], 3 => [3], 4 => [4], 5 => [5], 6 => [6], 7 => [7], 8 => [8], 9 => [9]}
coranila that definitely clears up any clarity because i still don't understand the difference between categorize and classify! 10:12
m: my @ten = ^10; .say for @ten.classify({$_ % 3 }), @ten.categorize({$_ % 3 }) # 10:13
evalable6 {0 => [0 3 6 9], 1 => [1 4 7], 2 => [2 5 8]}
{0 => [0 3 6 9], 1 => [1 4 7], 2 => [2 5 8]}
ab5tract It boils down to the optional named args, I guess 10:22
lol, not really 10:24
I didn’t look super closely but they appear at first glance to take the same optional arguments….
melezhik. wayland: thanks - will use this 11:19
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librasteve @coranila for discord m: operation, I recommend using backticks at start end of the code (ie after the m:) 12:23
this seems to be not too annoying for IRC onlookers 12:24
Discord is also good for multiline code with triple backticks ... but I suspect this could be painful over on IRC
coranila this makes the bot on discord misunderstand the line, doesnt it? 12:25
at least under markdown edge cases
that's why i use `` at all after all 12:26
librasteve m: say 'yo';
evalable6 yo
Raku eval yo
librasteve i've never seen that with backticks
(iiuc) 12:27
coranila here 12:31
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grondilu .seen antoncube 15:25
tellable6 grondilu, I haven't seen antoncube around, did you mean antononcube?
grondilu .seen antononcube
tellable6 grondilu, I saw antononcube 2025-05-06T16:33:34Z in #raku: <antononcube> @lizmat I was joking for the "wind direction." The use of "Map::Match" was suggested by you at some point when discussing the emojis package.
grondilu antononcube uses raku through JupyterLabs I think. Is that 'github.com/bduggan/raku-jupyter-kernel' or is there a better one? 15:26
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librasteve yeah Jupyter::Kernel (bduggan) is the base code, @antononcube developed that to Jupyter::Chatbook and added lots of LLM prompt engineering goodies 16:42
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Geth ecosystem: c97f7c5e81 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | META.list
Brian Duggan's modules don't live here anymore

They are either on the zef or CPAN ecosystems		 16:51
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grondilu librasteve: noted 18:36
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Xliff coranila: So Signatures are for a specific use case rather than a generic one. That seems like a waste of potential, but that explains alot. 19:37
My whole point is that I would like sub definitions to be reusable for NativeCall function pointers. There is no usable way to say: "sub c_callback ( uint32, &func (uint32, gpointer, gpointer --> gboolean) ) is native..." 19:38
You always have to specify that signature every time.
It makes NativeCall's use in large callback-involving projects (which is every GUI toolbox out there) a lot more dicey than it needs to be. 19:39
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coranila Yeah, there's a bit of a pit around Routine and Callable and the type system and such 22:28
I'm not sure if Signature was planned to be constructive originally - i'd think so, but maybe not - from what I know, internally Signatures are for introspection and trial binding and not for object definition 22:29
This kind of relates to my thoughts about how the type system is missing a third bottom, but that's a completely different pile of what 22:31
I do reserve the right to sound overly confident and saying someting wrong because I did not verify in advance, in any case 0:-) 22:32
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made me think of &wrap vs &assuming, and how the latter seems to be irreversible such that we cannot decompose the priimed anon into the original Routine and arguments 23:21
which probably could be solved on the same layer, by extending Signature such that it functions as a functional interface for declaration as well?
which i think is what we're doing during trial bind anyway, but opaquely vis the HLL 23:22
hmm, that however does seem to lead back to the missing explicit bottom type for the &-space 23:23
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antononcube @grondilu I was traveling… Raku Jupyter notebooks can be used in JupyeterLabs, but since I cannot make JavaScript plots there, I use Jupyeter notebooks in VSCode. 23:41

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