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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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avuserow I'm running into a weird issue where importing a module `A` seems to prevent finding `our` scoped items in `A::B`. I tried to golf it down, and line 4 here seems to prevent line 12 from working: codeberg.org/avuserow/temp-raku-mo...LI.rakumod 02:07
am I missing something about `our` scoped modules? I can never quite remember how modules are supposed to work with non-exported subs. 02:08
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wayland avuserow: Are those line numbers in the error still correct? 05:52
Also, is there a reason you don't have all the "use" statements grouped at the top? 05:59
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wayland General question: if I'm in a start block, and I want to return a result from the start block, how do I do that? "return" doesn't work. 08:06
Voldenet general answer: you don't 08:07
I don't think there's way to "return" from the block 08:09
m: say await start { return 3; 42 + 5 } # will not work
camelia An operation first awaited:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Died with the exception:
Attempt to return outside of any Routine
in block at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet m: say await start -> { return 3; 42 + 5 }() # also will not work
camelia An operation first awaited:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Died with the exception:
Attempt to return outside of any Routine
in code at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet m: say await start sub { return 3; 42 + 5 }() # will not work 08:10
camelia 3
Voldenet erm, will work*
but I think the most elegant way to do this is something like that: 08:12
m: sub foo { return 42; }; say await start foo;
camelia 42
Voldenet `leave` was supposed to be implemented for blocks, but it's NYI 08:16
it's made in a way that lets you return from a sub even when in a block
m: sub foo { 3.map({ .return }); return 42; }; say await start foo; 08:17
camelia 3
Voldenet these scoping rules could be very useful if "leave" was a thing
though I suppose that anonymous blocks are not made for anything really complex 08:29
Nothing prevents complex use, but I see their use mostly for one-liners in grep/map etc. 08:35
ah, there's also code organization, so you can do `sub x { { return 42 } }` - in this form it's more obvious why return works like it does inside blocks 08:40
but I'm not sure if Block object is created then, it's my guess only 08:42
disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> What happens if you drop the {...} curlie braces around your BLOCK ? I find with -ne one-liners, BEGIN blocks run just fine without any {...} curlie braces, in fact, they cause problems. 09:17
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> What happens if you drop the {...} curlie braces around your BLOCK ? I find with -ne one-liners, BEGIN blocks run just fine without any {...} curlie braces, in fact, they cause problems. 09:21
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> What happens if you drop the {...} curlie braces around your BLOCK ? I find with -ne one-liners, BEGIN blocks run just fine without any {...} curlie braces, in fact, they cause problems. 09:24
<jubilatious1_98524> Sorry, thinking about PHASERS. docs.raku.org/language/phasers 09:26
<jubilatious1_98524> m: my $promise = start { sleep 2; 42 }; say "This line executes immediately."; say "The asychronous result is ", $promise.result; 09:33
<Raku eval> This line executes immediately. The asychronous result is 42
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @wayland76 ā˜ļø 09:35
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wayland Voldenet: Unfortunately, lizmat has indicated that "leave" will probably never be implemented in Rakudo (which is a pity; I'd like it :) ). 09:50
OK, so it looks like the answer is to put a sub in the start block, and then return from the sub. Not wonderfully elegant, but probably workable. 09:51
I'm at the point where I'm in a "start" block, and I've caught an exception, and I want to return a different result from the Promise. 09:52
Thanks!
lizmat yeah, the benefits of a "leave" command vs the runtime overhead on all other blocks, were just too small 09:53
change the block you want to leave from to a sub, and use "return"
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Voldenet I was wondering if leave couldn't be implemented as goto, but goto isn't implemented either 09:59
:(
but probably goto is even more deadly
lizmat well, yeah :-)
wayland Voldenet: haha, I was wondering the same thing an hour ago :) 10:07
Voldenet I'm thinking out loud now, but maybe compiler could recognize leave 10:08
SmokeMachine Would it make sense to, in a module, implement leave throwing a control exception and on CHECK (using ASTQuery) search for ā€œ.block >> RakuAST::Call::Name#leaveā€ and add a CONTROL on that block?
And at least have leave on module space? Would that work? 10:09
Voldenet and do the following transformation `{ leave; code 1; leave; code 2 }` -> `{ my $left = 0; $left = 1; unless $left { code 1 }; $left = 1; unless $left { code 2 } }`
lizmat well... I guess that technically could be done in module space 10:10
but you need to remember that e.g. "return" just happens to be a subroutine that throws a return control message
Voldenet hm, or rather 10:11
lizmat so the actual semantics of "return" can be changed lexically
Voldenet `{ leave; code 1; leave; code 2 }` -> `{ my $left = 0; $left = 1; unless $left { code 1; $left = 1; unless $left { code 2 } } }`
lizmat the same would apply to "leave"
SmokeMachine Thatā€™s why I suggested the same to leaveā€¦ and if leave was changed to something else lexically, the CONTROL would just not be used, no? 10:13
Voldenet i wonder if syntax-levels transformations could work overall - it would produce jump as it should 10:14
SmokeMachine And that way we would have CONTROL only on block that have leave insideā€¦
Voldenet CONTROL exceptions is fun and all, but it's totally not what I'd expect from "return" 10:15
and leave
i'd expect something closer to that silly transformation above 10:17
in that model leave/return would introduce another conditional block recursively 10:20
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @wayland76 the start docs say you can die inside the async block, so wy not report your exception (or another value with die? 10:40
<jubilatious1_98524> m: start { die "We're dead"; }; say "working"; sleep 10; 10:41
<Raku eval> working Exit code: 1 Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 4 We're dead in block at main.raku line 1
wayland jubilatious1_98524: Good idea, but I've already followed the approach of making it a separate method :) 10:48
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Voldenet dying inside async block seems like a silly way to report results because it introduces lots of boilerplate 11:13
compared to sub I mean 11:14
m: class Value is Exception { has $.value }; sub throw-val { Value.new(:$^value).throw }; sub await-val { CATCH { when Value { .value.return } }; await $^p }; say await-val start { throw-val 42 } 11:21
camelia 42
Voldenet with better naming it could be even nice 11:22
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tbrowder hi, how can i precompile a module before use? 12:08
hm. i guess just loading it in a test should work, yes? 12:09
lizmat make sure you run the test file with -I. 12:18
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tbrowder ok, thnx, thatā€™s in my my std alias now: raku -I. ā€¦ per librasteve 14:10
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tbrowder so iā€™ve been using ChatGPT to the max and wonder if i should publish any more modules since everyone seems to be using it. i have been packaging modules useful to me so they are managed by App::Mi6 and i try to have good docs 14:14
i have created a package that emulates MSā€™s Access except it is unicode csv based with hooks for sqlite and postgresql, graphical interface, pdf and online docs, etc. i call it ā€œCarolynDBā€ named for my late mother. i will strive to publish it if anyone is interested. it uses noto fonts for wide language use 14:21
my first use will be for our various Christmas card, birthday, and anniversary lists. 14:23
mm 14:46
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disbot8 <simon_sibl> Sounds amazing, is it accessible anywhere ? 15:56
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disbot8 <antononcube> @tbrowder "[...] everyone seems to be using it" -- I am not so sure. šŸ™‚ 16:16
Voldenet yeah I use different llms ;p 16:17
disbot8 <antononcube> Can you give a list?
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disbot8 <antononcube> I'm only using using ChatGPT, Gemini, LLaMA ones, and Grock. 16:18
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disbot8 <antononcube> A fair amount of people have mentioned using Claude for programming. 16:19
Voldenet well mostly deepseek, copilot, claude
disbot8 <antononcube> I've used DeepSeek only for LLaMA.
Voldenet local models for tests, but my gpu is small
so I can only load toy 14b models 16:20
disbot8 <antononcube> Not that "toy", but OK...
<antononcube> Related to what @tbrowder mentioned, I am considering making LLM-graphs for package development. Too much documentation, though, have to be done first. 16:22
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Voldenet it's toy compared to 600b models, one day I'll have 200GB vram to test them out too 16:24
hopefully ;)
considering that vram doubles everyā€¦ uh 5 years or so, I'll be able to run them in 20 years perhaps 16:26
tbrowder antononcube: i meant "everyone' seems to be using AI 17:07
simon_sibl: it's not on github yet, but it will be soon i hope. i have more immediate TODOs first. but the site will be at "github.com/tbrowder/CarolynDB" 17:10
i'll create that now and you can express interest with an issue... 17:11
ok, it's up... 17:16
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @SmokeMachine This sound like a scoping issue. If the Exception is in the global scope, it should be seen by all inner scopes. How to fix? 18:31
avuserow wayland: you're right, adding the error message within CLI.rakumod changed the line number below, I should've added it at the end :( I think they're correct in output.txt in the root of the repo though 18:33
as for why I didn't put the `use` at the top, in my original code it was a `require` so it could be lazy-loaded, and I swapped it at some point to try different things
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SmokeMachine jubilatious1_98524: why? It would add the CONTROL just outside the blockā€¦ so, it would always be the ā€œinnerā€ oneā€¦ 19:10
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @SmokeMachine Wayland says problem is "I'm at the point where I'm in a "start" block, and I've caught an exception, and I want to return a different result from the Promise." Not seeing how to do that from: docs.raku.org/syntax/start 19:14
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SmokeMachine I was thinking more about a generic leave func on module spaceā€¦ 19:20
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disbot8 <antononcube> weekly: rakuforprediction.wordpress.com/20.../llmgraph/ 19:37
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> <@SmokeMachine> I wish I understood it better. Does module space get containerized when imported? Then you could have a CONTROL layer for import/export and/or enter/leave etcetera. 21:05
SmokeMachine jubilatious1_98524: I plan to use github.com/FCO/ASTQuery to find the blocks that contains the call to leave and manipulate the AST to add the CONTROL block. 21:24
example of using ASTQuery: github.com/FCO/Acme-Overreact/blob...ct.rakumod 21:32
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SmokeMachine Any idea on how can I insert a CONTROL inside a RakuAST::Block.body.statement-list? 23:47
lizmat: suggestion? ā˜ļø 23:48

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