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avuserow I'm running into a weird issue where importing a module `A` seems to prevent finding `our` scoped items in `A::B`. I tried to golf it down, and line 4 here seems to prevent line 12 from working: codeberg.org/avuserow/temp-raku-mo...LI.rakumod 02:07
am I missing something about `our` scoped modules? I can never quite remember how modules are supposed to work with non-exported subs. 02:08
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wayland avuserow: Are those line numbers in the error still correct? 05:52
Also, is there a reason you don't have all the "use" statements grouped at the top? 05:59
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wayland General question: if I'm in a start block, and I want to return a result from the start block, how do I do that? "return" doesn't work. 08:06
Voldenet general answer: you don't 08:07
I don't think there's way to "return" from the block 08:09
m: say await start { return 3; 42 + 5 } # will not work
camelia An operation first awaited:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Died with the exception:
Attempt to return outside of any Routine
in block at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet m: say await start -> { return 3; 42 + 5 }() # also will not work
camelia An operation first awaited:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Died with the exception:
Attempt to return outside of any Routine
in code at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet m: say await start sub { return 3; 42 + 5 }() # will not work 08:10
camelia 3
Voldenet erm, will work*
but I think the most elegant way to do this is something like that: 08:12
m: sub foo { return 42; }; say await start foo;
camelia 42
Voldenet `leave` was supposed to be implemented for blocks, but it's NYI 08:16
it's made in a way that lets you return from a sub even when in a block
m: sub foo { 3.map({ .return }); return 42; }; say await start foo; 08:17
camelia 3
Voldenet these scoping rules could be very useful if "leave" was a thing
though I suppose that anonymous blocks are not made for anything really complex 08:29
Nothing prevents complex use, but I see their use mostly for one-liners in grep/map etc. 08:35
ah, there's also code organization, so you can do `sub x { { return 42 } }` - in this form it's more obvious why return works like it does inside blocks 08:40
but I'm not sure if Block object is created then, it's my guess only 08:42
disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> What happens if you drop the {...} curlie braces around your BLOCK ? I find with -ne one-liners, BEGIN blocks run just fine without any {...} curlie braces, in fact, they cause problems. 09:17
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> What happens if you drop the {...} curlie braces around your BLOCK ? I find with -ne one-liners, BEGIN blocks run just fine without any {...} curlie braces, in fact, they cause problems. 09:21
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> What happens if you drop the {...} curlie braces around your BLOCK ? I find with -ne one-liners, BEGIN blocks run just fine without any {...} curlie braces, in fact, they cause problems. 09:24
<jubilatious1_98524> Sorry, thinking about PHASERS. docs.raku.org/language/phasers 09:26
<jubilatious1_98524> m: my $promise = start { sleep 2; 42 }; say "This line executes immediately."; say "The asychronous result is ", $promise.result; 09:33
<Raku eval> This line executes immediately. The asychronous result is 42
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @wayland76 ☝️ 09:35
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wayland Voldenet: Unfortunately, lizmat has indicated that "leave" will probably never be implemented in Rakudo (which is a pity; I'd like it :) ). 09:50
OK, so it looks like the answer is to put a sub in the start block, and then return from the sub. Not wonderfully elegant, but probably workable. 09:51
I'm at the point where I'm in a "start" block, and I've caught an exception, and I want to return a different result from the Promise. 09:52
Thanks!
lizmat yeah, the benefits of a "leave" command vs the runtime overhead on all other blocks, were just too small 09:53
change the block you want to leave from to a sub, and use "return"
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Voldenet I was wondering if leave couldn't be implemented as goto, but goto isn't implemented either 09:59
:(
but probably goto is even more deadly
lizmat well, yeah :-)
wayland Voldenet: haha, I was wondering the same thing an hour ago :) 10:07
Voldenet I'm thinking out loud now, but maybe compiler could recognize leave 10:08
SmokeMachine Would it make sense to, in a module, implement leave throwing a control exception and on CHECK (using ASTQuery) search for “.block >> RakuAST::Call::Name#leave” and add a CONTROL on that block?
And at least have leave on module space? Would that work? 10:09
Voldenet and do the following transformation `{ leave; code 1; leave; code 2 }` -> `{ my $left = 0; $left = 1; unless $left { code 1 }; $left = 1; unless $left { code 2 } }`
lizmat well... I guess that technically could be done in module space 10:10
but you need to remember that e.g. "return" just happens to be a subroutine that throws a return control message
Voldenet hm, or rather 10:11
lizmat so the actual semantics of "return" can be changed lexically
Voldenet `{ leave; code 1; leave; code 2 }` -> `{ my $left = 0; $left = 1; unless $left { code 1; $left = 1; unless $left { code 2 } } }`
lizmat the same would apply to "leave"
SmokeMachine That’s why I suggested the same to leave… and if leave was changed to something else lexically, the CONTROL would just not be used, no? 10:13
Voldenet i wonder if syntax-levels transformations could work overall - it would produce jump as it should 10:14
SmokeMachine And that way we would have CONTROL only on block that have leave inside…
Voldenet CONTROL exceptions is fun and all, but it's totally not what I'd expect from "return" 10:15
and leave
i'd expect something closer to that silly transformation above 10:17
in that model leave/return would introduce another conditional block recursively 10:20
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @wayland76 the start docs say you can die inside the async block, so wy not report your exception (or another value with die? 10:40
<jubilatious1_98524> m: start { die "We're dead"; }; say "working"; sleep 10; 10:41
<Raku eval> working Exit code: 1 Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 4 We're dead in block at main.raku line 1
wayland jubilatious1_98524: Good idea, but I've already followed the approach of making it a separate method :) 10:48
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Voldenet dying inside async block seems like a silly way to report results because it introduces lots of boilerplate 11:13
compared to sub I mean 11:14
m: class Value is Exception { has $.value }; sub throw-val { Value.new(:$^value).throw }; sub await-val { CATCH { when Value { .value.return } }; await $^p }; say await-val start { throw-val 42 } 11:21
camelia 42
Voldenet with better naming it could be even nice 11:22
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tbrowder hi, how can i precompile a module before use? 12:08
hm. i guess just loading it in a test should work, yes? 12:09
lizmat make sure you run the test file with -I. 12:18
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tbrowder ok, thnx, that’s in my my std alias now: raku -I. … per librasteve 14:10
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tbrowder so i’ve been using ChatGPT to the max and wonder if i should publish any more modules since everyone seems to be using it. i have been packaging modules useful to me so they are managed by App::Mi6 and i try to have good docs 14:14
i have created a package that emulates MS’s Access except it is unicode csv based with hooks for sqlite and postgresql, graphical interface, pdf and online docs, etc. i call it “CarolynDB” named for my late mother. i will strive to publish it if anyone is interested. it uses noto fonts for wide language use 14:21
my first use will be for our various Christmas card, birthday, and anniversary lists. 14:23
mm 14:46
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disbot8 <simon_sibl> Sounds amazing, is it accessible anywhere ? 15:56
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disbot8 <antononcube> @tbrowder "[...] everyone seems to be using it" -- I am not so sure. 🙂 16:16
Voldenet yeah I use different llms ;p 16:17
disbot8 <antononcube> Can you give a list?
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disbot8 <antononcube> I'm only using using ChatGPT, Gemini, LLaMA ones, and Grock. 16:18
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disbot8 <antononcube> A fair amount of people have mentioned using Claude for programming. 16:19
Voldenet well mostly deepseek, copilot, claude
disbot8 <antononcube> I've used DeepSeek only for LLaMA.
Voldenet local models for tests, but my gpu is small
so I can only load toy 14b models 16:20
disbot8 <antononcube> Not that "toy", but OK...
<antononcube> Related to what @tbrowder mentioned, I am considering making LLM-graphs for package development. Too much documentation, though, have to be done first. 16:22
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Voldenet it's toy compared to 600b models, one day I'll have 200GB vram to test them out too 16:24
hopefully ;)
considering that vram doubles every… uh 5 years or so, I'll be able to run them in 20 years perhaps 16:26
tbrowder antononcube: i meant "everyone' seems to be using AI 17:07
simon_sibl: it's not on github yet, but it will be soon i hope. i have more immediate TODOs first. but the site will be at "github.com/tbrowder/CarolynDB" 17:10
i'll create that now and you can express interest with an issue... 17:11
ok, it's up... 17:16
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @SmokeMachine This sound like a scoping issue. If the Exception is in the global scope, it should be seen by all inner scopes. How to fix? 18:31
avuserow wayland: you're right, adding the error message within CLI.rakumod changed the line number below, I should've added it at the end :( I think they're correct in output.txt in the root of the repo though 18:33
as for why I didn't put the `use` at the top, in my original code it was a `require` so it could be lazy-loaded, and I swapped it at some point to try different things
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SmokeMachine jubilatious1_98524: why? It would add the CONTROL just outside the block… so, it would always be the “inner” one… 19:10
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> @SmokeMachine Wayland says problem is "I'm at the point where I'm in a "start" block, and I've caught an exception, and I want to return a different result from the Promise." Not seeing how to do that from: docs.raku.org/syntax/start 19:14
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SmokeMachine I was thinking more about a generic leave func on module space… 19:20
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disbot8 <antononcube> weekly: rakuforprediction.wordpress.com/20.../llmgraph/ 19:37
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disbot8 <jubilatious1_98524> <@SmokeMachine> I wish I understood it better. Does module space get containerized when imported? Then you could have a CONTROL layer for import/export and/or enter/leave etcetera. 21:05
SmokeMachine jubilatious1_98524: I plan to use github.com/FCO/ASTQuery to find the blocks that contains the call to leave and manipulate the AST to add the CONTROL block. 21:24
example of using ASTQuery: github.com/FCO/Acme-Overreact/blob...ct.rakumod 21:32
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SmokeMachine Any idea on how can I insert a CONTROL inside a RakuAST::Block.body.statement-list? 23:47
lizmat: suggestion? ☝️ 23:48

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