Parrot 3.2.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Parrot is accepted for GSoC 2011! Student application deadline is Apr 8
Set by moderator on 27 March 2011.
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whiteknight do we have any NEWS items related to ecosystem projects? 00:13
msg NotFound is there anything from winxed that we can add to NEWS this month? 00:21
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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dalek rrot: baa3b01 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
add mention of other GC cores to the commandline help
 01:06
whiteknight pmichaud++ for the suggestion
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nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "darwin/ppc: build failure at 6dddd870f4 with --gc=gms" (13 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/40904 01:09
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#15010) fulltest) at 3_2_0-414-g6dddd87 01:10
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (g++ --gc=gms)
kid51 That's the first outright build failure I've had in a long time.
whiteknight ...lolwat? 01:11
let me build it now 01:12
kid51: looks suspiciously like trying to build with an installed parrot muddling up the works
parrot builds for me just fine on this machine 01:13
kid51 But this only appeared when I added the --gc=gms option.
Earlier tonight, I ran a successful Smolder test without that option. Same machine, same installed parrot underneath my homedir. 01:14
And the only reason why I have an installed parrot is my need for one to debug dynoplibs tests on Darwin.
whiteknight where did you add that option, the commandline to configure?
kid51 My successful smolder from just a few hours ago: smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/rep...ails/15007 01:15
whiteknight: Yes. Resulting in: gc_type => GMS in lib/Parrot/Config/Generated.pm 01:16
'configure_args' => '"--cc=/usr/bin/gcc" "--link=/usr/bin/g++" "--ld=/usr/bin/g++" "--configure_trace" "--gc=gms"',
On my linux box, I've built and run make test tonight with --gc=gms in several different combinations: All g++; optimize; optimize and g++; etc. All PASS. 01:17
But, as always, my iBook is the canary in the coal mine.
whiteknight kid51: when was the last time you successfully built on darwin with --gc=gms? 01:18
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kid51 Until tonight, I never did. But (a) I always tried with whatever was our default GC at the moment; (b) I was testing successfully with bacek's recent packfile whatever branch. 01:19
Recall that last night I said that I had been testing successfully with both master and bacek's branch, so I was looking forward to a smooth merge.
And that opinion was based on both linux and darwin. 01:20
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kid51 The only test failure I was getting yesterday -- one of long-standing -- was in t/op/number.t on Darwin but only with --optimize 01:20
kid51 wipes out his installed parrot and starts over 01:21
whiteknight I'm heading to bed now. If it's still a problem in the morning, I'll fix it as quickly as possible 01:25
goodnight
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kid51 Interesting that on Linux -- where everything is PASSing for me -- I get different number of warnings during 'make' depending on whether I'm compiling with gcc or g++ and whether I'm configuring with --optimize or not. 01:27
mikehh kid51: yes - I get a similar situation, most remain the same, but a few differences in warnings 01:36
I am running a rakudo test without --optimize ATM, it is taking a least twice as long 01:38
nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "darwin/ppc build failure with --gc=gms (and no installed parrot)" (4 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/40905 01:41
mikehh the build took 10m41.458s as opposed to 3m30.014s with --optimize 01:43
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kid51 The Parrot build? Or the Rakudo build? 01:43
mikehh rakudo
benabik ~~
mikehh that's using make -j (in rakudo) 01:44
well date && time make -j
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dalek rrot: 83e4dba | jkeenan++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
For the purpose of getting quick(er) feedback on different GC options, add a
 01:53
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mikehh rakudo (887bb5b) - builds on parrot (3_2_0-414-g6dddd87) - make test, make spectest_smolder[(#15019), roast (7309150)] PASS 02:22
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (g++ --gc=gms)
27,695 ok, 0 failed, 606 todo, 1,800 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
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mikehh rakudo spectest_smolder 47m50.431s vs 19m28.610s with --optimize (TEST_JOBS=4 in each case) 02:25
I am not doing that again in a hurry
rakudo takes over twice as long to build and test without --optimize as opposed to with --optimize 02:27
atrodo cotto> ping 02:28
mikehh needs some sleep - will do some more tests later
rdesfo Hello, I was wondering why ubuntu have such an old version of parrot on launchpad.net? 02:33
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sorear probably they got it from CPAN 02:39
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dukeleto ~~ 02:51
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dalek rrot/opsc_lasm: 80decd7 | atrodo++ | compilers/opsc/lasm.nqp:
Add output for two more pirop's
 03:33
rrot/opsc_lasm: c745eeb | atrodo++ | compilers/opsc/lasm.nqp:
Handle the "interp" variable, kind of
rrot/opsc_lasm: f9ff27f | atrodo++ | prototype_pbc2lasm.pl:
Stub out a really rough pbc2lasm script that outputs something
cotto ~ 03:46
atrodo, pong
who's elise? 03:47
atrodo cotto> I've got this crazy project idea for this week. I'm seeing how far I can get in taking a pbc and generating lasm 03:52
cotto seems to be a gsoc student 03:53
atrodo, do tell
we need more crazy
bacek_at_work atrodo, heh. blog.bacek.com/2011/04/crazy-jit-pr...-hold.html 03:54
cotto I worry that whiteknight is going to sleep through the release
bacek_at_work you'll need 80-90% of C compiler to handle current ops...
cotto sad face
atrodo cotto> I'm using pbc_dump and pbc_disassemble to figure out the pasm and constants and use some perl glue to bolt the ops lasm in place 03:56
bacek_at_work> i saw that earlier
cotto omg hax 03:57
atrodo oh yea, hack city. but proof of concept
cotto concepts are fun to prove
atrodo then I'm thinking I can bolt a parrot_compat pmc into it to take care of the trickier bits 03:58
cotto what's your aim?
atrodo magic? ;)
benabik atrodo: Isn't M0/Lorito supposed to have less magic? 03:59
cotto more magic = less magic
or something like that
maybe the opposite 04:00
atrodo less magic == more magic
benabik Ah, yes, the less is more theory of magic.
cotto ;)
atrodo but actually, the aim is to take a parrot pbc, and run it in alorito 04:01
cotto nobody's going to accuse you of aiming low
atrodo bacek_at_work> do you have an example of an op that gave you the most trouble?
cotto bets on rebless_subclass 04:02
atrodo cotto> it's really an attempt to see for myself how difficult it would be
and my biggest unknown at this point are the pmc's themselves 04:03
cotto PMCs aren't that scary to me. They're just a bunch of function pointers and some data that follow certain conventions. 04:04
though I guess you could say that of gcc too.
atrodo Right, that's not the trouble part. It's what to do with them, convert them to alorito or to make them interface at the C level 04:05
cotto which is ironic, since the point of Lorito is to do away with that boundary
atrodo cotto> it'd be "transitional" 04:06
then again, temporary code never is
cotto like html 4.01
atrodo grumbles css
cotto dribbble.com/shots/104556-HTML-4-01...IONAL-LOGO 04:07
atrodo i think that's perfect
bacek_at_work atrodo, any op which have VTABLE_foo in it. 04:10
cotto xkcd is long today 04:12
atrodo Ya, i skimed it, knowing i was missing out on some good jokes
bacek_at_work> is there something subtle I'm not catching? the VTABLE_foo's were actually low on my worry list 04:13
bacek_at_work VTABLE_foo(interp, pmc) is pmc->vtable->foo(interp, pmc)
Two things: cpp and type analyses. 04:14
atrodo right, which looks to be the case in all definintions in vtable.h
cotto I love the contradictions
bacek_at_work heh. What about PARROT_GC_WRITE_BARRIER?
Or even worse: PTR2UINTVAL
In general case you have to parse _all_ parrot headers. 04:15
Second thing: you have to know result of "pmc->vtable" part to properly generate code for "->foo" part.
cotto deep magic in them macros 04:16
atrodo heh, PTR2UINTVAL is defined with UINTVAL2PTR 04:19
bacek_at_work yes. Welcome to hell of parsing C macros... 04:20
atrodo hmmm. For hating C so much, parrot sure abuses it 04:22
cotto when you have a hammer...
atrodo Everything looks like a screw 04:23
Yea, looks like some of those macros are going to give me troubles at some point 04:28
At any rate, it's time for sleep so I'm not asleep while I'm hacking tomorrow night 04:29
cotto 'night 04:30
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cotto bacek++ #"itchy codebase" 05:46
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cotto question for the ether: Is some kind of symbol table necessary to implement CPS in M0? 07:44
moritz you look up things by name in symbol tables 07:46
what use would that be in M0?
cotto looking up a variable from somewhere further up the call tree 07:47
moritz aka "lexical lookup"?
cotto yes 07:48
moritz you might need that, but I don't see the relation to CPS
in particular lexical lookup is tight to static scope, not along the call chain
s/tight/tied/ 07:49
jnthn__ might be able to comment the need of having that in M0 though
cotto CPS means (among other things) that the continuation tracks whichever variables are in scope when the continuation is taken. 07:52
That continuation needs to know enough to tie a name to a value for those variables.
jnthn__ Well, I guess if you capture some kind of call frame, then something specifying the name to slot mapping would hang off that. 07:55
In general, we need to make looking up lexicals by name the non-default.
At least, for languages that know their lexicals at compile time. 07:56
cotto Sure. That could get expensive quickly.
moritz it already is :/
cotto hugs nqp
jnthn__ Well, it does. Rakudo and NQP have to look up all of their lexicals by name.
moritz see also: rakudo compilation :-)
jnthn__ When I implemented an optimization in nqpclr to bind just parameters by lexical slot rather than by lexical name, it cut the time for the signature binding to run in half. 07:57
cotto I'd like to see how that works. 07:58
jnthn__ cotto: Well, in nqpclr the PAST compiler is aware of the slot numbers and stashes them into the signature object. 07:59
cotto simple enough
jnthn__ One issue we have is that we currently store lexicals all in the register set. 08:00
So there's no distinction between temporaries and lexicals
e.g. we can't free the register set up at the end of a call if there's a closure.
So temporaries can survive way longer than they really need to. 08:01
nqpclr doesn't do it that way; it just allocates an array for the lexicals. 08:02
And the name to slot mapping is held once per block
Though that's maybe not dynamic enough for all languages.
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moritz you mean if they allow creation of new lexicals at run time? 08:04
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jnthn__ moritz: Yeah 08:04
tadzik I can't think of any practical use of that 08:05
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jnthn__ tadzik: Perl 6 doesn't need it at all. 08:05
tadzik fair enough
jnthn__ tadzik: I'm more concerned for other languages that Parrot wants to run. :)
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tadzik yeah, I see 08:05
cotto It'd need to be implementable somehow for some languages. 08:06
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moritz I'm pretty sure TCL needs it. It needs *all* kind of thing that drive implementors crazy 08:10
cotto sleeps 08:15
tadzik it recently become a compiler rather than an interpreter. The major implementation I mean 08:17
moritz I'm sure it's still as insanse as perl :-) 08:18
tadzik :) 08:19
I think that the fact that it Can be interpreted makes it at least a bit less complicated 08:20
moritz well, Turing is the limit
and the line between compilation and interpetation are fine and blurred 08:21
jnthn__ tends to draw it as a dotted line these days :) 08:25
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moritz fwiw rakudo tests cleanly on RELEASE_3_2_0-416-g83e4dba 11:41
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:56
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tadzik good morning whiteknight 13:06
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whiteknight hello tadzik, how are you today? 13:12
kid51 whiteknight: I am off today and at home in case you want help with that problem. 13:18
whiteknight kdi51: okay, I haven't even looked at the report you emailed me last night 13:24
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dalek rrot/parrot_3_3: b6c91ba | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
update version numbers in a few places
 14:16
rrot/parrot_3_3: 1cfacea | Whiteknight++ | docs/p (2 files):
update release_manager_guide. Add an entry to parrothist.pod, but I don't have a name yet
rrot/parrot_3_3: 8a1b743 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
add info about release to my CREDITS entry. Update release.json. Revise release_manager_guide.pod with respect to the ops2c bootstrapping steps. That mechanism is complicated enough without the clumsy half-explanation.
 14:38
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whiteknight blah. These bootstrappy parts of the release always trip me up 14:59
I just can't seem to figure out a sequence which allows me to do this smoothly 15:00
cotto It should Just Work if you follow the release manager guide. 15:04
PerlJam whiteknight: wasn't someone working on making parrot releaseable via dzil ? 15:05
cotto I do admit that it's fiddly though.
whiteknight cotto: if you can even understand some of the garbage written therein
PerlJam Or was that an idea that just got floated and I glommed onto it because it sounded neat?
whiteknight the lovely quote "To have parrot configured and have run make with the old version number is condition for this step." is where I am going crazy now 15:06
moritz PerlJam: probably the latter
whiteknight because when I do use a previously built parrot with the old version number to update the core ops files, I get a build warning that I'm loading the wrong ops library
I've already rewritten that section in the branch, but if I can't get this to work, I've probably rewritten it wrongly 15:07
cotto not the good english that
whiteknight to be the bad english previously it is
PerlJam moritz: would have made a good GSoC project though :)
moritz PerlJam: good yes, fun... probably not
PerlJam: it doesn't *sound* like it can fill a whole summer though
whiteknight okay, now it seems to be building 15:08
installed parrot was borking the process
dalek rrot/parrot_3_3: 8a77739 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
update ops bootstrap stuff
PerlJam moritz: yeah ... probably.
cotto awesome 15:09
moritz PerlJam: otoh build and configure system changes tend to have a long tail of failures on... "idiosyncratic" platforms 15:10
whiteknight at least it doesn't look like we need to update PBC_COMPAT
cotto We should just because it's a major version bump. 15:11
whiteknight there's no need to update it for no reason. There have been no changes since 3.0
cotto Fine. I'll delete an op if it'll make you happy. 15:12
whiteknight ...I don't think you understand what kinds of things make me happy
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cotto How about new? Nobody uses that. 15:12
whiteknight blarg fail. t/steps/auto/warnings-01.t fails 15:14
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whiteknight looks like that's only an issue with my compiler. Works fine when I configure with gcc instead 15:16
msg kid51 t/steps/auto/warnings-01.t fails for me when I configure with clang instead of GCC. Is that something that can be fixed or is worth fixing? 15:23
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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whiteknight blah. make docs fails now because I don't have JSON.pm installed 15:24
I'm entering CPAN hell. I'll be back in a few minutes
moritz recommends cpanm. Much less hell-ish
whiteknight I feel like the solution to my missing dependency problems is rarely "install one more dependency first" 15:25
hmmm that actually went much faster than I was expecting. I'm glad I used --force the first time, since I did see some test failures go flying by 15:26
saves me from having to go back and tell the computer that yes, I actually do want to install the thing I said I wanted to install 15:27
moritz whiteknight: it doesn't solve the problem for the first dependency you want to install, but for the second all subsequent 15:29
whiteknight the only time I ever do any work with perl or its modules is when I am testing or releasing parrot 15:32
I've basically stopped using the language for any other purpose
cotto_work ~ 15:34
atrodo I've noticed cotto_work hasn't been as excited in his waves lately
whiteknight wave inflation 15:35
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kid51 whiteknight: Can you paste failures? 15:36
whiteknight kid51: I'm fulltesting now. I'll go back to it shortly
kid51: do you have clang? reproducing it should be very quick 15:38
perl Configure.pl --test --cc=clang --link=clang --ld=clang
and it was the second test to run
cotto_work ~ ~~ ~~ 15:41
whiteknight now there are too many waves! They are going to be devalued! global wave markets will crash! 15:43
I can already hear the screams of bankrupt wave traders jumping out of windows
the horrors
cotto_work whiteknight: you dun released? 15:44
whiteknight no. I'm probably not cutting the final release until after #ps
cotto_work ok
whiteknight but I'm working in a branch, so master is free for the breaking
cotto_work git++
whiteknight git++ indeed
kid51 whiteknight: No, I don't have clang. 15:51
whiteknight kid51: okay, let me try to reproduce it now 15:52
kid51 Appears there's no debian package for it (in Lenny, at least), and it wasn't bundled with LLVM until after the llvm version I have.
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moritz yep, needs to be built from source on debian 15:52
whiteknight heh, it didn't fail this time
wonderful
kid51 What 'clang' mentions there are in config/auto/warnings.pm were added by Andy Lester in March 2010 -- which was a couple of years after I last looked at that file. 15:54
moritz: Yes, and it looks like a multi-step process here: clang.llvm.org/get_started.html
Does it have any existence outside of LLVM? 15:55
whiteknight no clang is just the C compiler portion of LLVM
moritz that's a bit like asking if rakudo has any existence outside of parrot
it's based on compiles to LLVM
iirc apple ships it with some IDE 15:56
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kid51 Well, my general impression is that LLVM, OTOH is a more developed project than Parrot, but substantially less developed (i.e., production-ready) than, say, GNU. 15:57
moritz GNU isn't really one project 15:58
kid51 Which raises the question: Should a project like Parrot, which is still 'quite' experimental, be based on LLVM, which is still 'rather' experimental?
cotto_work We should use LLVM. We shouldn't be married to it. 15:59
whiteknight I'm not sure I would call LLVM experimental
kid51 moritz: I was mainly referring to GCC, gnutools, etc (not Hurd)
moritz kid51: I don't see llvm as very experimental - in my experience it's quite stable and mature
whiteknight the core of LLVM is quite stable and reliable. clang is a much younger offshoot project that we don't need to use at all
LLVM as JIT is a stable and respectable solution 16:00
moritz kid51: I compiled parrot to llvm (with llvm-gcc) some two years ago, and all tests passed. Even rakudo on top of that worked fine. And that was without any tuning of any code base
s/to/with/
whiteknight i think llvm-gcc has been discontinued or something 16:09
lucian whiteknight: except that it's not very good for JITs in general
whiteknight: it's been replaced with dragonegg, i think
whiteknight lucian: I've heard that sentiment repeated several times, but I've never seen any evidence that it is not or cannot be made to be a suitably good JIT solution 16:10
moritz whiteknight: maybe because clang is now good enough
whiteknight moritz: now that it has full c++ support, I suspect that is true
lucian whiteknight: you should talk to rubinius folk
whiteknight: llvm makes patching code very hard
whiteknight lucian: I've heard that said before too. Any worthwhile lessons would have ended up written and published somewhere by now
lucian the best it can do is compile a single function at runtime 16:11
no patching, no tracing
whiteknight lucian: and that doesn't answer the question about whether or not the rubinus folk were just too incompetent to use it correctly
lucian whiteknight: well, they're not the only ones. unladen swallow, pypy
whiteknight tracing isn't something the actual compiler would do anyway. The runtime does the tracing and creates an execution sequence for the JIT to compile
lucian sure, but that's my point 16:12
llvm is huge, and a great static compiler
but there are no JIT features to speak of
it's about as good as generating C code and invoking gcc at runtime
just slightly better
whiteknight then what is the recommended replacement?
libJIT?
nanoJIT?
lucian perhaps 16:13
whiteknight saying LLVM is not good enough, and actually offering a superior alternative are two completely different arguments
lucian nanojit has been used extensively for JITs
whiteknight the former doesn't convince me very much
lucian libjit is abandoned, sort of i think
lightning is frozen
whiteknight that's the impression I've gotten libjit and lightning are both out of the running 16:14
lucian all the cool kids these days write their own codegen (PyPy, v8, jscore)
whiteknight see, that's exactly the kind of crap we want to avoid
lucian and if you talk to PyPy folks, it makes sense
whiteknight we don't want to write a JIT here
lucian when all of these projects started, nanojit was either nonexistent or too immature
whiteknight we did that once, and it sucked mightily
lucian but you'll still write a jit, just not the codegen
whiteknight right, that's what I mean. the codegen is what we want to avoid 16:15
lucian sure
whiteknight because we already support x86, x86_64, ARM, and PPC. That's a hassle
lucian the problem is that llvm doesn't have any advantages for being so inflexible
its optimisations are completely unsuitable for dynamic languages
whiteknight advantages are that it's available, we're familiar with it, and we can make it work with our system 16:16
and for a first "real" stab at JIT, those aren't things to be ignored
lucian rubinius does bytecode interpretation and uses llvm for hotspots, as a dumb portable assembly
whiteknight that's probably close to what we will end up doing
lucian sure, but then you might as well go with nanojit 16:17
it's much faster, and smaller
even running java is hard on llvm (look at VMkit)
although that's not great either 16:18
i think it only has x86 and arm backends
whiteknight see, that's a serious problem
unless we want to declare that some of our target platforms do not have JIT support 16:19
and it's hard to make an argument that we "support" them if we don't offer such important services there
lucian how many users are there on ppc/sparc?
whiteknight more than zero
lucian i see 16:20
hmm. i get conflicting data
nanojit may have mips, ppc and sparc backends
whiteknight and we're not going to amputate target platforms because of some quick cost/benefit calculation
lucian this is funny www.masonchang.com/blog/tag/nanojit
i agree with kid51's point mostly. llvm isn't mature as a target for a JIT, especially for dynamic languages 16:21
whiteknight last time I looked at nanoJit, probably less than a year ago, it was still woefully immature and inadequate, and in a state of major development flux 16:22
I worry that it will not be stable enough for us because it will always be serving a higher master: JS in FireFox
every time they need something changed, nanoJit is going to up and change 16:23
lucian whiteknight: hmm hg.mozilla.org/tamarin-redux/file/3...1f/nanojit
apparently there's backends for everything, and apparently not bitrotten either 16:24
whiteknight okay, that's encouraging
lucian actually scratch that, everything has the same date 16:25
they could very well be bitrotten
cotto_work It's odd that all the files have the same timestamp
whiteknight like I said, a year ago it was in a very sorry state of affairs, and I don't know how much things would have changed since then
lucian cotto_work: indeed. 16:28
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lucian it's probably a mirror or something 16:28
cotto_work looks like that the dev repo for Tamarin 16:33
*that is
I didn't know it was under active development
dukeleto ~~ 16:38
did a release get tagged yet?
dukeleto wants to know when he can break master
cotto_work dukeleto: yup. whiteknight said so.
whiteknight release is happening in a branch. master is free for murder and unpleasantness
I can cherry-pick last-minute fixes and NEWS/PLATFORM updates if necessary 16:39
maybe first change should be to make GMS the default GC core? 16:49
cotto_work wfm
whiteknight and mention that fact in news?
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dalek rrot: ed159d0 | cotto++ | / (2 files):
make gms the new default GC, update NEWS, drop some unneeded code
 16:58
cotto_work sadly, the build failed to break
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dukeleto whiteknight++ 17:02
cotto_work: i can probably fix that
cotto_work: did you have to buy a ticket for LFNW? Or do we just show up?
tadzik I can test something if it's needed
fulltest on the 3.3 branch?
cotto_work dukeleto: good question
whiteknight tadzik: that would be wonderful
tadzik on it
whiteknight tadzik++
dalek rrot: 61176bb | dukeleto++ | t/src/extend_vtable.t:
Merge branch 'leto/embed_grant'
 17:03
dukeleto crosses his fingers
cotto_work dukeleto: I guess you just register on their site if you feel like it. If not, just show up.
dukeleto LinuxFest Northwest is an annual event held at Bellingham (WA) Technical College. Linux and open source experts, users and enthusiasts share their experience with a wide variety of free and open source technologies. There is no charge for parking nor for admission to the exhibits and presentations. 17:04
it is on the top banner of the front page. Why would I read something like that?
cotto_work beats me 17:05
nobody reads that kind of copy
nopaste "tadzik" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "parrot_3_3 failures with --gc=gms --optimize" (13 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/40920 17:08
whiteknight is that on windows? 17:09
tadzik nope, linux, amd64
whiteknight oh shoot
that's no good
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whiteknight let me try out that configuration now 17:10
nopaste "tadzik" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "moar failures" (25 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/40921
tadzik more informative too
17:11 darbelo left
dalek rrot: 31ca512 | cotto++ | src/string/api.c:
simplify hash seed initialization and remove a debugging macro
 17:11
whiteknight at the very least, that seems like a terrible error message. 17:12
it should say which family is not supported
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cotto_work works fine on my machine 17:13
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cotto_work nice to see that something's broken though 17:13
tadzik++
whiteknight that's the question though, is parrot broken or is tadzik's setup weird? 17:14
I'm building now
tadzik gives his laptop a suspicious look
whiteknight the evil eye is what broke it in the first place 17:16
works just fine on my machine too 17:18
cotto_work It boggles my mind that I can by 8GB of ram for a just-released laptop for less than $100.
sorear I remember back when 8GB of hard drive cost more than that
And I'm only 20 17:19
davidfetter vaguely boggled, but for another reason: that the price-fixing that caused this to be surprising hasn't been criminally prosecuted.
it's not like the manufacturing processes suddenly got that much cheaper
dukeleto my first RAM upgrade was 4MB 30-pin DIMMs that cost $200. I just bought 6GB for $75. Times have changed. 17:22
whiteknight: do you need help with anything?
whiteknight dukeleto: no, I think I have everything ready. 17:23
dukeleto whiteknight: sounds good. did somebody add the -L thing to NEWS?
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whiteknight the -L thing is not worth mentioning yet 17:23
dukeleto whiteknight: because it is experimental?
whiteknight: a user asked for it. I figured others might want to know. We of course should say that it is experimental 17:24
cotto_work because it's not very significant
whiteknight it's not significant and I'm very unhappy with it
dukeleto hokey dokey
whiteknight we do need to change it shortly after the release to something with less fail
cotto_work whiteknight++ for mentioning that 17:25
dukeleto whiteknight: does it have tests?
cotto_work It feels bolted-on.
tadzik what's -L? 17:26
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dukeleto tadzik: augments the parrot library search path, i think 17:30
so is parrot 3.3.0 still looking in . for libraries, by default ?
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jnthn__ nqp's build uses -L and -I, fwiw. 17:34
(e.g., they work ;))
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dalek TT #2097 created by jkeenan++: darwin/ppc build failure once gms is default GC 17:38
TT #2097: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2097
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whiteknight that problem on PPC is troubling 17:47
I wonder if anybody can reproduce besides kid51
Andy_ I've reproduced. Quinn is now 9. 17:54
whiteknight I really need to get myself access to a PPC machine eventually
Andy_ What runs on a PPC? Old Macs?
whiteknight i guess 17:55
lucian ps3
actually, all consoles nowadays
kid51 That's Mac OS X 10.4.11 ... hey, we were all using that a few years back! 17:56
afk lunch
Andy_ hey wait, kid51, what is lunch?
I need inspiration.
whiteknight dukeleto: ping 18:16
nevermind, unping 18:20
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tadzik whiteknight: any clues about my ipv6 fail? 18:21
auto::ipv6 - Determine IPV6 capabilities.........................yes.
whiteknight tadzik: no, I haven't been looking at it 18:24
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kid51 When I configure 'master' with '--gc=ms2' on Darwin/PPC, 'make' completes ... but now t/src/extend_vtable.t is once again failing. 18:27
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dukeleto whiteknight: poing 18:36
whiteknight: unpoing
kid51: that is expected
kid51: i broke master, because our release is from another branch 18:37
tadzik: what is your ipv6 fail?
tadzik: is there a TT for it?
tadzik dukeleto: nopaste.snit.ch/40920 and nopaste.snit.ch/40921
dukeleto: nope, it's today's 18:38
dukeleto tadzik: looks like ipv6 is misdetected on your system 18:39
tadzik: does your system support ipv6?
tadzik: please nopaste the output of "parrot_config --dump" on that system
tadzik pastie.org/1812587 18:41
dalek TT #2098 created by jkeenan++: t/src/extend_vtable.t: test failures on Darwin/PPC with --gc=ms2
TT #2098: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2098
tadzik dukeleto: I'm not sure if it does, I don't use it 18:42
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tadzik is this a kernel thing? 18:42
dukeleto tadzik: yeah 18:49
tadzik: which distro are you using?
tadzik: do you have any kernel security features turned on? 18:50
tadzik dukeleto: Gentoo. Just peeking into nconfig
dukeleto: no I think not
dukeleto tadzik: you may be the first gentoo person to run ipv6 tests.
tadzik < > The IPv6 protocol --->
no, doesn't look like I'm ipv6 friendly
dukeleto tadzik: kid51 wrote the config steps to detect ipv6 18:51
tadzik: sounds like we misdetect ipv6 on gentoo
dukeleto has to go
tadzik: can you create a TT for this?
tadzik > zgrep IPV6 /proc/config.gz
# CONFIG_IPV6 is not set
dukeleto: preferably not today, but yeah 18:52
dukeleto tadzik: something like "ipv6 is mis-detected on gentoo" and give the "uname -a" and version of gentoo and cc on your machine
tadzik: or just email parrot-dev and someone else will
tadzik: thanks!
tadzik gentoo has no versions :) I will, no problem
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kid51 /j #parrotsketch 19:12
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atrodo kid51> What's your YAPC::NA talk about? 19:20
kid51 Lemme see if I can remember ...
cotto_work something about community management
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kid51 Open Source Software Projects and Organizations: Community Issues 19:23
www.yapc2011.us/yn2011/talk/3333
atrodo Oh, sweet, the schedule is up. Time to star! 19:24
Is there a parrot BOF setup yet? 19:25
kid51 No, we haven't done that. Please bring that up at #parrotsketch today.
tadzik BOF?
kid51 Birds of a Feather 19:26
atrodo Birds of a Feather
Basically, people of a common intrest getting together
tadzik I see
kid51 aloha: BOF? 19:27
aloha kid51: Dunno.
kid51 aloha: BOF? 19:28
aloha kid51: I have no idea.
kid51 aloha is so dumb. I just taught her that in a private session, but she can't repeat it back in public!
atrodo Shy! 19:30
tadzik she's discrete
Andy_ tadzik: the word you want is "discreet".
19:30 lucian_ left
tadzik thanks Andy_ 19:30
Andy_ www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/discreet.html 19:31
Tene Andy_: not necessarily; "discrete" could apply just fine here, in saying that aloha keeps knowledge from different channels separate and distinct. 19:32
tadzik so discreet girl, and discrete mathematics, right?
Andy_ Right.
19:36 theory left, bubaflub joined
cotto_work like Bender's dating service 19:37
19:47 theory joined
cotto_work #ps in 42 19:48
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mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#15075) fulltest) at 3_2_0-428-g31ca512 20:05
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (gcc --optimize --gc=gms)
Tene contributes to pds poll 20:08
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cotto_work #ps in now 20:31
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mikehh rakudo (887bb5b) - builds on parrot (3_2_0-428-g31ca512) - make test, make spectest_smolder[(#15079), roast (7309150)] PASS 20:53
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (gcc --optimize --gc=gms)
27,695 ok, 0 failed, 606 todo, 1,800 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
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whiteknight #ps looked short and uneventful 22:41
I'm building what will become the release now. Any objections or last-minute additions? 22:42
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cotto_work go for it 22:46
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whiteknight okay, I'm fulltesting the tarball. If all is well, we have a release 22:50
unfortunately I can't run fulltest in parallel, because that damn threads.t test goes crazy sometimes 22:55
running multiple test targets, or too many test jobs, seems to trigger failures more commonly
KaeseEs when you say it goes crazy... 22:56
whiteknight I mean the test randomly fails 22:58
which is crazy, since that's not the kind of thing a test should do 22:59
false negatives == worthless test
actually, worse than worthless, since we have to take time to understand and diagnose the failure, or do stupid things to avoid it
23:03 hercynium left
dalek rrot/parrot_3_3: c1bc61d | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Parrot 3.3 is 'Fire in the Sky'
 23:10
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whiteknight cotto_work: ping 23:21
23:26 plobsing left
cotto_work whiteknight: pong 23:30
whiteknight cotto_work: privmsg
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cotto_work pdp11.aiju.de/ 23:41
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cotto_work I was planning on doing something that wasn't Portal 2 until I found out that it's out today. 23:47
dalek website: Whiteknight++ | Parrot 3.3.0 "Fire in the Sky" Released! 23:48
website: www.parrot.org/news/2011/Parrot-3.3.0
cotto_work I'm not sure sleep is in order.
cotto_work goes home
23:49 Eduardow left
whiteknight anybody here with access to parrotvm? 23:50
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