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Set by lizmat on 8 June 2022.
00:30 MasterDuke joined
MasterDuke anyone have any objections to merging github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/5844 ? 00:31
JimmyZ: are you going to do any more work on github.com/Raku/nqp/pull/843 or is it ready to merge? 00:33
tellable6 MasterDuke, I'll pass your message to JimmyZ
MasterDuke i have a branch that makes singletons for the most common Nodify() calls, but if there's a way to get rid of Nodify all together that's even better... 00:35
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Geth rakudo/main: b527cefcb2 | MasterDuke17++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 5 files
Some random attribute access consistency changes (#5844)

Fix a couple cases of native attributes not using the typed accessor, and make some other attributes consistent with similar ones.		 08:55
nine MasterDuke: I've played around a bit with the build system. With this you get it to compile the BOOTSTRAP before Raku::Actions: 09:25
tellable6 nine, I'll pass your message to MasterDuke
nine @comp(@bsm(RAKUDO_A_R)@: @bpm(NQP_VERSION_FILE)@ @use_prereqs(@nfp(@bpm(BUILD_DIR)@/RakuActions.nqp)@)@ @bsm(RAKUDO_P)@ @bsm(RAKUDO_BOOTSTRAP_C)@ @bsm(RAKUDO_OPS)@)@
Then you can use Perl6::BOOTSTRAP::v6c; in Raku::Actions 09:26
However that also imports the EXPORTHOW so we then try to create Raku classes instead of NQP classes and the metamodel is very confused. So I think we'd have to put RakuAST into its own file and import that from both Raku::Actions and the SETTING
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JimmyZhuo MasterDuke: I think it's ok to merge, but I didn't test raku roast yet. 11:08
tellable6 JimmyZhuo, I'll pass your message to MasterDuke
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melezhik copy pasting from raku channel - "question from Alpine maintainer who is doing raku-* package for Sparrow - "are the precompilation files specific to a particular version of Rakudo? In other words, after a Rakudo upgrade, do i need to precompile every Raku module again?"11:28 My knowlege it is not, but I am not sure." 12:27
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nine Yes they are. That's why the compiler's id is included in the path name 12:39
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melezhik . 12:44
tellable6 2025-04-25T12:43:02Z #raku <nine> melezhik: if that alpine list impresses you, what about the openSUSE one? build.opensuse.org/project/show/de...uages:raku
melezhik nine: what then alpine maintainer should do? recomple every time for every new rakudo version is bad idea 12:45
nine No, it's exactly the right idea. 12:46
It's also absolutely pain free on e.g. the open build service.
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JimmyZhuo by using moar --dump Grammar.moarvm, and reading these codes, I can see there is a lot of room for improvement to reduce it's size, and make it faster. some of these improvements is easy, and some is hard for me 13:05
nine JimmyZhuo: keep in mind that spesh will simplify that code a lot at runtime with the information about observed types
JimmyZhuo nine: yes, I think some can be remove by spesh, and some can't 13:07
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melezhik nine: I am looking from an end user point of vie - so every time Rakudo gets upgraded on VM they need to upgrade all the Raku packages , doubt this is a good scenario 13:26
nine Why is it not? It's exactly the same as I get with almost every other software including Python and Perl 13:29
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lizmat also: why include .precomp files at all for modules? 13:45
they're created automatically on first usage ? 13:46
nine For the same reason we're not all using Gentoo?
Why would you do the same work millions of times when the result should be identical in every case? 13:47
lizmat ok, but don't we have an issue then with updates, leaving stale .precomp files around? 13:48
nine On inferior systems maybe. But since we're talking about Linux distributions with proper package managers, no, not at all. 13:49
That's after all the point of having package managers in the first place.
lizmat ok, I'm glad to hear then: melezhik: please ignore my earlier "advice" :-)
nine It's actually the opposite: the stale .precomp problem only exists if you rely on Rakudo's auto-compilation. 13:50
lizmat which I do a lot... :-) hence my worries 13:52
nine: does this not also imply that one could exclude source files from a distribution ? 13:53
nine Almost. I think I wrote about binary-only distributions years back and the conclusion was that it would only take a few tweaks to make that possible 13:54
lizmat cool... something to think about :)
afk&
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melezhik nine: ok, looks like Python has the similar situation with that regards - stackoverflow.com/a/43547026/5147708 15:37
tellable6 2025-04-25T13:44:14Z #moarvm <lizmat> melezhik: .precomp directories will be created automatically on first execution of a module
2025-04-25T13:44:44Z #moarvm <lizmat> melezhik: they should probably *not* be included in a distribution
melezhik ok, I will update alpine maintenaners  on that matter 15:38
looks like given all the distributions are in place apk update && apk upgrade should be enough 15:40
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[Coke] releasable6__: next 16:58
releasable6__ [Coke], Next release in ≈22 days and ≈2 hours. There are no known blockers. 5 out of 7 commits logged
[Coke], Details: gist.github.com/31ea17d24eae49f5ae...3622c40499
[Coke] anyone know how to get them to rename themselves? I think I can do a trivial change on the repo, but is there a better/devops way? 16:59
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patrickb jdv: I did not intend for this to happen again. I actually spent 2 hours or so moving my PC to my parents to keep it available during my absence. But for some reason I'm again unable to access the system. Argh! 20:31
I did recently buy a JetKVM (did not arrive yet) which will hopefully once end for all put an end to this misery. 20:32
Fundamental issue: How do I remotely and reliably boot up a computer? (Failed attempts: WakeOnLAN, a WiFi plug + PC boot up on power up) 20:34
jdv nice:) 20:35
ab5tract patrickb: you can always try bribing the parental units into pressing the power button as necessary :) 20:42
the folks who I know who have tried the non-human-driven options have not been able to make them work reliable 20:46
*reliably
jdv there's these things called laptops 20:57
i've used console server type stuff before but its a pain 20:58
ugexe iDRAC, etc 21:19
lizmat patrickb: remote power switch ? 22:00
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