🦋 Welcome to Raku! raku.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/raku
Set by ChanServ on 14 October 2019.
00:02 sena_kun left 00:05 xinming left
ToddAndMargo12 Anyone taking Timo's place on newie duty? 01:32
01:39 dominix joined
dominix hi everyone 01:39
tellable6 2019-09-28T14:05:51Z #perl6 <uzl[m]> dominix mobile.twitter.com/zoffix/status/1...3627155456 mobile.twitter.com/zoffix/status/1...0624221184
2019-09-28T14:08:03Z #perl6 <uzl[m]> dominix It seems Zoffix is up to something entirely different. I guess the best we can do is wish Zoffix all the best in this new life endeavor. Although I hope he reconsiders. 😃�
02:02 ToddAndMargo12 left
dominix I am observing a weird thing, and don't know if its a feature or a bug 02:07
if I write say (5,7,-3,2).minmax
I got -3..7
but what is this result ?
p: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.elems 02:08
m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.elems
camelia 11
vrurg dominix: docs.perl6.wakelift.de/routine/minmax
dominix so it is evaluated as -3 ... 7 ? right ?
I would have see it as a list of two elements, a min and a max. 02:09
vrurg dominix: the doc clearly states 'returns a range'.
m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.minmax 02:10
camelia (-3 7)
vrurg ^ this is how you get two elems.
dominix ho man ! what a tricky
I would have made this two different functions, like minmaxrange and minmax (pair) 02:11
vrurg Range and Supply are special cases. minmax on Range is different. 02:12
dominix m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.minmax.elems
camelia 2
dominix ho god !
vrurg m: say (5,7,-3,2).minmax.bounds 02:13
camelia (-3 7)
vrurg ^ That'd be more correct use.
dominix thanks, I got it now, but is was a WTF sequence for me to get to it. 02:16
vrurg greppable6: minmax 02:17
greppable6 vrurg, 140 lines, 11 modules: gist.github.com/0d58f0013202a19a5d...cbdd7a3369
AlexDaniel uzl[m]: well, another thing we can do is make sure we don't cause such pain to devs in the future 02:52
uzl[m]: by pain I mean, like, in the bum 02:53
because Zoffix was doing a lot of great work but then they'd bump into issues that were a bit out of their control 02:54
e.g. the naming thing
at the time, we didn't have any framework on working on such issues
so Zoffix did their absolute best to improve things, which got a lot of backlash because some individuals thought that Zoffix is trying to impose their solution/view on others without consensus 02:55
I mean, “consensus” because there was nothing to define what it is 02:56
Geth problem-solving: 7af1dfc3f9 | (Fernando Correa de Oliveira)++ (committed by Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev) | README.md
Add my name to the list
problem-solving: 5e9d288a3b | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | README.md
Merge pull request #84 from perl6/merge-mishap

Add FCO to the list
problem-solving/master: 4 commits pushed by (Vadim Belman)++, (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ 03:01
AlexDaniel Congrats vrurg, SmokeMachine! 🎉🎉🎉 03:08
vrurg AlexDaniel: thanks!
04:01 wamba joined 04:07 dominix_ joined 04:11 dominix left
elcaro dominix_: I think the confusion is that - on a list of numbers, .minmax returns a Range... and on a Range, .minmax returns a list of (2) numbers 04:33
ideally .minmax should be consitent... but if that was the case, Range.minmax would just return itself... which isn't very useful. maybe Range.minmax should be renamed to indicate it is a different method 04:35
05:00 wamba left 05:09 jaldhar joined
AlexDaniel elcaro: yeah 05:36
that's really weird, actually 05:37
I don't think it was supposed to be this way
06:10 wamba joined, jmerelo joined 06:28 sena_kun joined 06:35 dominix_ is now known as dominix 06:51 wamba left 07:03 xkr47 joined 07:04 cpan-raku left 07:05 cpan-raku joined, cpan-raku left, cpan-raku joined 07:18 sena_kun left
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: :) thanks! 07:25
07:26 jaldhar left, jaldhar joined 07:33 jmerelo left 07:37 stoned75 left 07:46 dominix left 07:57 ufobat joined 08:06 wamba joined 08:27 kensanata joined 08:40 sena_kun joined 09:08 sena_kun left 09:43 wamba left 09:52 wamba joined 09:53 daxim joined 10:02 wamba left 10:10 wamba joined 10:20 sena_kun joined 11:29 zag joined 11:43 Altai-man_ joined 11:44 wamba left 11:45 sena_kun left 11:55 ggoebel joined 12:10 wamba joined 12:13 joule joined, wamba left 12:31 xinming joined 12:34 Wahnberger joined
Wahnberger jnthn: Sorry github.com/jnthn/p6-io-socket-asyn.../issues/47 :/ 12:34
12:35 wamba joined
Wahnberger can I do something to provide more usefull Info to you ( i am not the best coder, so I dunno how to dig into that isse deeply) 12:35
12:57 a6502 joined 13:12 mensvaga joined 13:16 Wahnberger left
SmokeMachine I saw that the grant proposal time has come, and I'd like to know if some one think that would good to have a grant proposal to let me spend more hours developing Red... Or if doing it on my spare time is good enough (I still don’t know if I can do it… but I’d like to know what youall think about this possibility...) 13:41
[Coke] wonders what it is about email from ToddAndMargo12 to perl6-users that causes his gmail phone client to get confused about what is read/unread in that thread so he has to restart. 13:43
13:44 sena_kun joined 13:46 Altai-man_ left 13:59 wamba left 14:02 wamba joined 14:33 Wahnberger joined
Wahnberger yo 14:33
14:34 lucasb joined
[Coke] yo 14:35
14:36 ggoebel left 14:37 zag left 14:38 sarna joined
lucasb yay 14:41
vrurg SmokeMachine: I think you should apply. Red is assuredly one of the gems in Raku ecosystem. 15:10
SmokeMachine vrurg: thanks! :) 15:16
sena_kun SmokeMachine, you certainly should! I think that the whole community will only win if Red will be more polished and "production-ready" - less bugs, more documentation and possibly speed would be awesome. Just make sure to write it out properly: particular acceptance criteria and so on. 15:24
SmokeMachine sena_kun: thanks! :)
15:29 cfa joined 15:30 kensanata left
sena_kun it is also a cool project to show off raku in general, but I think it has its own papercuts. :/ e.g. IIRC I wasn't able to create a model named User with sqlite when I tried it out. 15:30
`'user' is an invalid table name for driver Red::Driver::SQLite` is the error 15:31
SmokeMachine sena_kun: the database do not accept it… you can do `model User is table<another_name> {…}` 15:36
sena_kun SmokeMachine, while arguably more obscure than necessary, I'd expect it to automatically do another name for me, maybe _user or something. Maybe that's just me, but I found `class User`(`model User`) natural. 15:38
and when it says to me "You can't do that" I know why I can't, but it feels like not the best experience for the end user. 15:39
15:44 Altai-man_ joined
SmokeMachine sena_kun: it makes sense... 15:44
15:45 sena_kun left
SmokeMachine sena_kun: But what would be worst? not being able to create the table, finding out that you could use `is table<>` for that and making it work, or creating the table an not finding it because the name of the table is different of what you would expect? 15:46
15:46 ggoebel joined
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to sena_kun 15:46
SmokeMachine sena_kun: I think the error message should suggest using `is table<>` what do you think about it? 15:47
tellable6 SmokeMachine, I'll pass your message to sena_kun
15:48 wamba left 15:49 Altai-man_ is now known as sena_kun
sena_kun SmokeMachine, if you insist on not doing magic, an error message would improve the situation, I think 15:50
tellable6 2019-11-04T15:47:22Z #raku <SmokeMachine> sena_kun: I think the error message should suggest using `is table<>` what do you think about it?
hey sena_kun, you have a message: gist.github.com/504cc5826e0700dd93...54ef988657
16:11 wamba joined
Kaiepi releasable6, status 16:20
releasable6 Kaiepi, Next release will happen when it's ready. There are no known blockers. 248 out of 454 commits logged (⚠ 9 warnings)
Kaiepi, Details: gist.github.com/d0ce22eb8bb5b4c3c0...058dc5bea0
16:30 moon-child joined 16:32 moon-child left, moon-child joined 16:34 Kaiepi joined 16:35 Kaiepi left, Kaeipi joined 16:39 Merfont joined 16:40 Kaeipi left 16:50 jaldhar left 17:05 wildtrees joined
El_Che SmokeMachine: in my view we need (at least) 1 good and feature complete webapp/rest app framework (with oauth/openid-connect support) and 1 db interface. With these 2 a lot of simple projects could be written in raku. 17:14
Wahnberger :) 17:16
El_Che SmokeMachine: not talking about ORM, per se. But something likethat lets you easily do CRUD, even close to SQL. 17:17
SmokeMachine El_Che: so you think that shouldn’t be Red? 17:18
El_Che SmokeMachine: at the moment is RED the one that probably can get there the fastest
SmokeMachine: not, I think that Red had the biggest chance to become the DBI/DBM alternative 17:19
SmokeMachine :)
El_Che (my point is that easy-db-support-for-trivial-thing is more important that the high-end orm stuff
in my view, of course)
I thinking small webapps/rest services where the db part can be rather trivial crud 17:20
SmokeMachine: so, if you have the time, I think most people would be thrilled by your possible grant 17:23
SmokeMachine El_Che: I think makes sense (about `easy-db-support-for-trivial-thing is more important that the high-end orm stuff`)
El_Che So, if you keep that in mind, combined with Cro, it's something very significant for the ecosystem 17:25
Wahnberger El_Che: confirmed 17:28
the very most users are developing small stuff..and this has to done very quickly i guess 17:29
El_Che I ma doing small rest apis in Go nowadays, but more often than not they don't need the speed, so a few projects could be done in Cro+Red. I wrote a small Cro app in the pre-Red Days, but the db part wasn't great 17:31
so I put it on hold
Wahnberger i am still using perl on *nix boxes but I am working on to move all that (old crappy) stuff to perl6...atm a working cro setup on windows would be great :) 17:32
17:32 cognominal joined
El_Che Wahnberger: use docker to develop? Less painfull than native windows 17:33
Wahnberger: there is docker (with a smallish hyperv vm transparantly hidden) and the WSL
SmokeMachine El_Che: I’ve already started plaing with that: github.com/FCO/Cro-HTTP-Session-Red
El_Che Wahnberger: I wouldn't bother with native Windows except if you plan to deploy on that OS 17:34
SmokeMachine: that is great! Session management is a PITA and nowadays you always deploy on several containers
Wahnberger yes, it sould run on that windows box..its all small stuff, but very important for my (small) company 17:35
and only inhouse
El_Che (new Cro is out!) 17:37
Wahnberger: if I look at our environment, Linux deployment is very automated (repos, CI, orchastration, monitoring, load balancing, etc etc). The Windows part is pretty... artesanal 17:38
Wahnberger cro is out?
17:43 Altai-man_ joined
El_Che Wahnberger: twitter.com/croservices/status/119...33249?s=20 17:43
Wahnberger ah..1. Nov on Github i see 17:44
mhm..try it tomorrot to see whether the ssl issue is gone :( 17:45
17:45 sena_kun left
Wahnberger has 17:45
El_Che Wahnberger: ssl issue? 17:46
Wahnberger uhm..no..thats another lib
yep.. its not Cro itself: github.com/jnthn/p6-io-socket-asyn.../issues/47
17:46 cpan-raku left 17:47 cpan-raku joined, cpan-raku left, cpan-raku joined
El_Che Wahnberger: and you windows has the CA used for www.perl6.org? 17:48
Wahnberger: I have seen several places where windows admin strip CA roots out of ignorance
Wahnberger i have tried it with several hosts - other libs, like WWW are working well 17:49
El_Che Windows is a tricky OS for a small footprint (now they have "core" it should be easier)
Cloudflaree it seems 17:50
17:50 wildtrees left
El_Che have a look in mmc, certificates snap-in, computer 17:51
(if it's a regular desktop, the ca will be there)
Wahnberger 2 das ago the lib failed to install while testing..this has already been fixed by johnathan..but at runtime the code fails as shown in the post
El_Che (I am referring to servers, where admins something remove CAs except the one from the company)
17:52 wildtrees joined
El_Che Wahnberger: ah, jnthn is aware. Cool. 17:52
Wahnberger El_Che: I have tested all that stuff on an windows7 box too
yes he is..i have to wait now :) I would do some tests if its helpfu 17:53
i could do the job with other libs or even curl on cli but I want to use Cro cus its damn nice to work with 17:55
[Coke] regarding Red - is there a list of what DBs it works with?
Altai-man_ sqlite and postgres 17:56
18:12 Tirifto joined 18:16 Merfont is now known as Kaiepi
Kaiepi jnthn, IO::Socket::Async::SSL's taking a very long time to run tests for someone on linux mint hastebin.com/teyeyodoxu.makefile 18:37
18:38 chloekek joined 18:40 wamba left
discord6 <tmtvl> m: say (1, 2) == (2, 1); 18:42
evalable6 True
discord6 <tmtvl> Hm...
Altai-man_ m: say (1, 2) eqv (2, 1) 18:44
camelia False
Altai-man_ m: say (1, 2) eqv (1, 2)
camelia True
Altai-man_ tmtvl: eqv is for more tight structural equivalence here 18:45
discord6 <tmtvl> Yeah, switching between languages on Monday evening is a recipe for disaster. 18:46
Kaiepi oh wait i thought the version they were using was 2019.03, not 2018.03 lmao
nvm then
tony-o [Coke]: what DB are you looking for?
[Coke] I have an interest in SQL Server and mongo. (I get that mongo would be a weird fit) 18:57
19:09 jmerelo joined 19:10 joule left
cfa hmm 19:31
tellable6 2019-11-04T19:24:15Z #raku-dev <jmerelo> cfa it's done by hand for the time being. Automatic deployment is yet to come...
cfa it looks like LibraryCheck's tests are failing against rakudo HEAD
namely, the bogus library checks
anyone able to reproduce that? i've encountered on openbsd and macos
jmerelo: thanks, noted 19:32
jmerelo: i wasn't aware of process changes (i thought the existing pipeline had been transferred to the new server)
mensvaga Where can I read an example of a class that has another class as an attribute? 19:33
MasterDuke Kaiepi: i'd recommend they try El_Che++'s repos to get a newer rakudo before any further debugging
mensvaga class Equipment { has PhysicalConnections Array $physical_connections}
or something
Ah. How do I specify that a class has as an attribute an array of other classes? 19:34
MasterDuke has OtherClass @otherclasses 19:35
mensvaga thanks
tony-o [Coke]: i can make xoos work with SQL server fairly quickly
hardest part would be making a sql server to test against 19:36
cfa ( github.com/jonathanstowe/LibraryCheck/issues/4 ) 19:38
MasterDuke doesn't MS provide images for testing on linux?
[Coke] Could probably fire one up in azure...
(images for testing) ah, even better.
mensvaga I see that I can say: has Int $.age; has Str $.name 19:39
Is there a way for me to specify that it has to be a number? And I don't care if it's an int, or a float?
lucasb has Numeric $.num
19:39 wamba joined
MasterDuke m: say Int.^mro; say Num.^mro 19:39
camelia ((Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))
((Num) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))
mensvaga Numeric. Who would have guessed? ;)
MasterDuke m: say Int.^roles; say Num.^roles
camelia ((Real) (Numeric))
((Real) (Numeric))
tony-o ah, yea that'd be even better 19:40
mensvaga Nice. Learning some internals.
tony-o i'll take a look tonight [Coke]
19:42 Wahnberger left
Kaiepi MasterDuke, everything seems to work on a more recent rakudo version 19:44
19:45 Altai-man_ left 19:47 wamba left 19:48 jmerelo left 19:49 wamba joined
MasterDuke that's good 19:50
19:54 stoned75 joined
[Coke] tony-o: no pressure. I'm just thinking about what it would take for me to be able to use raku at work. 20:11
(but it wouldn't happen quickly anyway)
20:13 ufobat_ joined
tony-o if i do it now it'll give you time to play around with it so i can make it as production ready as possible 20:14
(and others, at that)
20:17 ufobat left
lizmat and another Rakudo Weekly hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2019/11/04/2019-44-comma-cro/ 20:19
[Coke] lizmat++ Thanks! 20:20
discord6 <sjn 🇳🇴> Nice, thanks! lizmat++ 20:23
20:33 Doc_Holliwood joined
Doc_Holliwood says `hello`from hungary 20:33
any of you guys located in the balaton area? 20:34
jnthn Kaiepi: Probably I'd just retry it. 20:39
21:06 dkoi joined 21:07 dkoi left
rba lizmat++ 21:23
21:31 LtStaffel joined
LtStaffel Anyone have any ideas why the discord module github.com/shuppet/p6-api-discord does not work with the latest cro (off github)? 21:36
kawaii Yeah it's broken currently 21:37
We know that much
Uh something something breaking change in JSON::Fast happened originally and then some other stuff broke too 21:38
I haven't had the time or energy to look into it
Altreus: ping ^
LtStaffel I'm nearly a complete noob with Raku but if there's a way I could try to help I'd like to 21:39
SmokeMachine [Coke]: it's not that difficult to write a Red Driver... (I mean for SQL... NoSQL I don't know yet...) 21:40
21:44 lucasb left 21:48 LtStaffel left
AlexDaniel kawaii: hiii! :) 21:52
kawaii Yes hello Alex I've been away for a while :)
It's nice to be missed 21:53
You can have a Blin tomorrow
AlexDaniel kawaii: no need! We figured it out, I think!
kawaii: El_Che++ finished the dockerizing, maettu++ has a machine set up to run it
kawaii vanishes forever
AlexDaniel nooo 21:54
well, we still need to somehow run it automatically and share the results, or something like that
kawaii: as far as the release goes, technically it's ready, just waiting for moarvm release and then there's some paperwork left to do (like changelogging and stuff) 21:55
but all blockers are resolved and results from Blin seem to be clean 21:56
kawaii: so, I'm merging this? github.com/perl6/problem-solving/pull/83
22:02 wildtrees left 22:06 Tirifto left 22:08 chloekek left 22:27 wildtrees joined 22:30 sarna left 22:38 sarna joined 23:00 AlexDaniel left 23:23 marcusr joined 23:26 cfa left 23:36 wamba left