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autarch Hi all. I'm not sure who to ask about this so I'll ask here. I've filed for a trademark on "Raku" in the US on behalf of TPF. There were a couple objections raised by the trademark office (see tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?case...p;tdrlink= for the letter). One of the issues is that the raku 01:46
website does not show the "raku software" available for download, only "rakudo". So basically we need a download link or button that says "Raku" somewhere.
The other objection, BTW, is about our translation of Raku, but that's easily dealt with by taking a screenshot of Google Translate. 01:49
vrurg autarch: would it be ok for you to open an issue in github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues ? 01:52
autarch: It's not that easy to gather all involved parties at one time on IRC. 01:54
autarch Sure, no problem
vrurg autarch: Thank you!
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Geth ¦ problem-solving: autarch assigned to rba Issue Need a "Raku" download button/link for US Patent on Raku github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/193 01:55
autarch There you go 01:56
vrurg thanks! 01:57
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Geth ¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel unassigned from rba Issue Need a "Raku" download button/link for US Trademark on Raku github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/193 08:21
¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to jnthn Issue Need a "Raku" download button/link for US Trademark on Raku github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/193
doc: 8f2fff97ba | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Failure.pod6
Minor corrections ref #2632
08:36
doc: 75f1dc5b46 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Failure.pod6
Copies definition of `fail` for #3382

Deletes the method part, leaves the rest the same.
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/Failure
Geth doc: 93d0fd105f | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Exception.pod6
Documents Exception.fail closes #3383
linkable6 DOC#2632 [open]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/2632 [Hacktoberfest][RFE][big][docs][good first issue][help wanted][new][‚ö† Top Priority ‚ö†] Checklist for 6.d
linkable6 DOC#3382 [open]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3382 [docs] Improve documentation for routine fail
Link: docs.raku.org/type/Exception
DOC#3383 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3383 [docs] Document Exception.fail
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Geth doc: eb399bea7c | (Christian Bartolomäus)++ | doc/Language/list.pod6
Use consistent indentation (for one example)
08:48
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/list
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sour what do people generally use for working with raku, besides comma? 10:21
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moritz gvim 10:22
sour nice, what plugins do you use? 10:24
moritz LanguageTool and TabNine 10:33
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cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Gnome::GObject (0.16.6) by 03MARTIMM 10:57
New module released to CPAN! LibXML (0.3.1) by 03WARRINGD 10:58
New module released to CPAN! Test::Async (0.0.7) by 03VRURG
New module released to CPAN! Trait::Traced (0.4.0) by 03KAIEPI
New module released to CPAN! Trait::Traced (0.4.1) by 03KAIEPI
New module released to CPAN! Test::Async (0.0.9) by 03VRURG
New module released to CPAN! Test::Async (0.0.8) by 03VRURG
New module released to CPAN! ReadWriteLock (0.1) by 03ROBERTLE
New module released to CPAN! ReadWriteLock (0.2) by 03ROBERTLE
New module released to CPAN! Cache::Async (0.2) by 03ROBERTLE
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Gtk3 (0.28.2) by 03MARTIMM
New module released to CPAN! Trait::Traced (0.4.2) by 03KAIEPI
New module released to CPAN! Algorithm::ZhangShasha (0.0.2) by 03TITSUKI
New module released to CPAN! Algorithm::ZhangShasha (0.0.1) by 03TITSUKI
New module released to CPAN! Algorithm::ZhangShasha (0.0.3) by 03TITSUKI
New module released to CPAN! Test::Async (0.0.10) by 03VRURG 10:59
New module released to CPAN! Shelve6 (0.1) by 03ROBERTLE
New module released to CPAN! Template::Mustache (1.1.4) by 03SOFTMOTH
New module released to CPAN! Matrix::Client (0.5.2) by 03MATIASL
New module released to CPAN! Util::Uuencode (0.0.1) by 03JSTOWE
New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Gtk3 (0.28.3) by 03MARTIMM
New module released to CPAN! Async::Workers (0.1.0) by 03VRURG
New module released to CPAN! TCP::LowLevel (0.0.5) by 03JMASLAK
New module released to CPAN! Async::Workers (0.1.1) by 03VRURG
New module released to CPAN! Net::BGP (0.5.0) by 03JMASLAK
New module released to CPAN! Rake (0.0.1) by 03ELIZABETH 11:00
xps The suggested syntax to be used for declaring that a function agument is a function of a specific type is not very easy to find in the docs. 11:04
A tiny tiny example on the functions page suggests sub f(&c){ c() * 2 }; under the section argumens
But you you have to make sure you don't blink or you might miss it 11:05
But now I'm trying to figure out how to make anonymous functions work well with functions that type their function valued arguments like that
I can write a sub with the correct signature and pass that function and all is good
But I can't seem to find a way to write a lambda that "gives it the right type" 11:06
Altai-man_ m: sub a(&foo) { say foo(42); }; a(-> $x { $x * 2 }) 11:08
camelia 84
Altai-man_ xps, like ^?
xps privatebin.net/?a116d18c37fb2e66#A...ft6um1qR5p
It works if I don't type the functions, if I leave the function argument "dynamic" then it's all good 11:09
Altai-man_ m: sub foo (&g:(Int --> Int)) { g(42) }; say foo(-> Int $i --> Int { $i }); 11:11
camelia 42
Altai-man_ m: sub foo (&g:(Int --> Int)) { g(42) }; say foo(-> Int $i, --> Int { $i });
camelia 42
xps Also correction, it was on the signature page this line was given that shows the syntax for typed function arguments: sub f(&c:(Int)) { } -- under signature literals section 11:12
Altai-man_: Now that syntax is very confusing I must say 11:14
Altai-man_ xps, the difference is that you don't need parentheses for lambda params, I think. Can you please create a ticket at github.com/Raku/doc/issues describing your opinion on this particular docs issue (or just share a link to this conversation)?
xps It does not make immediate sense to me that I would call foo with what looks like two arguments
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Altai-man_ xps, the foo definition is the same, it's the lambda. 11:15
xps Ok I could consider doing that when I've ironed out how these things actually work and understand it
Yes I get that foo is the same, it's the calling convention that looks confusing to me
cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Rake (0.0.2) by 03ELIZABETH
Altai-man_ m: -> Int $a, Int $b --> Int { say $a + $b }
camelia ( no output )
Altai-man_ It's a matter of preference, maybe. Raku does not favor parens and they can be omitted in a lot of places. E.g. `if True {}` instead of `if (True) {}` or `foo;` instead of obligatory `foo();`. 11:16
xps I do get the syntax now, but boy is it ambiguous to me
Altai-man_ xps, ambiguous with that else? 11:17
xps Provided this would be written out in the arguments to a function call the comma in this lambda trips me up while reading
But this is all familiarity I understand
Altai-man_: Thanks for the help 11:23
Altai-man_ xps, you are welcome. Also, another way is just not type everything, but probably that's not the way you prefer it. Also, should I create the doc ticket or you'll go for it? 11:27
xps I very much do prefer to leverage strict typing as much as I can, I like that raku can do both. If you want to go ahead and make a simple ticket linking to this converstation that would be excellent, otherwise I might try later to make on 11:29
Altai-man_ xps, I'll make one, thanks for reporting about it. 11:30
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Geth doc/Mu-perl-to-raku: 2103d73d82 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6
Mention .raku method instead of .perl method

ref #3309
14:46
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3385:
Mention .raku method instead of .perl method
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Geth doc/Mu-raku-descr: dd8d05b18d | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6
Clarify behavior of raku method on type objects
15:00
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3386:
Clarify behavior of raku method on type objects
15:01
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Geth doc/perl-method-to-raku: 9c69a3fd72 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | 3 files
Mention or use .raku method instead of .perl

ref #3309
15:06
doc: stoned++ created pull request #3387:
Mention or use .raku method instead of .perl
15:07
cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Net::BGP (0.5.1) by 03JMASLAK 15:28
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Geth doc: 2103d73d82 | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Mu.pod6
Mention .raku method instead of .perl method

ref #3309
15:42
doc: 16d49fe279 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Mu.pod6
Merge pull request #3385 from Raku/Mu-perl-to-raku

Mention .raku method instead of .perl method
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/Mu
linkable6 DOC#3309 [open]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3309 [docs][update] Change .perl to .raku in examples
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lizmat weekly: blogs.perl.org/users/laurent_r/2020...-sums.html 15:50
notable6 lizmat, Noted! (weekly)
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guifa2 there's no way for roles to access inner subs from the classes they're mixed into without the subs being our scoped, right? 17:01
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El_Che weekly: new v2020.05.1 packages and compiled relocatable tar.gz files: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/ 17:06
notable6 El_Che, Noted! (weekly)
timotimo guifa2: that's correct, subs are stirctly lexical scoped 17:08
guifa2 Ugh. Rakudo core making slangs more difficult ;-)
timotimo toss the sub into Rakudo::Internals :D
guifa2 Ha. Thankfully I can still copy and paste 17:09
But at least I finally got the slang to recognize the binex declarator, so I might have this looking closer to standard regex sooner than I thought 17:10
cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Net::BGP (0.6.0) by 03JMASLAK
timotimo very good 17:12
guifa2 Is there a way that I can get output during the comp phase?
timotimo "get" output?
guifa2 Ops like say/spurt/print don't seem to do anything 17:13
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timotimo that sounds odd. you are in p6 code, yes? you want to output something while the script using your module is being imported, or something similar? 17:15
maybe you're running into precompilation making your code only run once, and i think output during precomp is potentially nommed by the process starting the precomp 17:16
since it's using stdout/stderr to communicate anyway
guifa2 In the slang grammar, I'll put in a code block like { say "can you hear me now?" } . When that token is used, no output is presented. 17:18
but maybe it's just rerouting output somewhere else. I remembering running into this once with zef but I can't remember if I ever figured out anything for it 17:19
timotimo you can strace -f to get stuff from all processes spawned from the one you're stracing, and maybe -e write or so
then in the millions of lines of output you'll hopefully see your debug output
otherwise, i'd recommend opening a temp file somewhere and writing into that
guifa2 temp file sounds better :-) 17:20
Most of the trouble right now is just getting my head around all of the internals on how regexen get installed, as protos, multis, etc, and introspection can be helpful 17:21
timotimo right
have you ever tried the debugserver? 17:22
it's not perfect and the commandline interface a little clunky, but it could potentially help
guifa2 Not yet
Although I actually have a fair amount of time no to play around with those tools 17:23
guifa2 finally finished the spring semester. good f***ing riddance lol
timotimo :+1:
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guifa2 arg, dangit 18:17
there's a lexically scoped variable that there's no way I can access even if I copy and paste in because the core subs won't modify it 18:18
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lizmat guifa2: which one ? 18:18
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timotimo then give access through a method until you can find a better way, just to be able to experiment more? 18:19
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guifa2 $use_vm_binder 18:19
lizmat: would it be safe to just use false for it for now?
hrm, actually maybe it's just being set outside to avoid multiple allocations? 18:20
stoned75 commit: release Date.new(2000,1,1).perl 18:22
committable6 stoned75, ¬¶release: ¬ęCannot find this revision (did you mean ‚Äúrelease‚ÄĚ?)¬Ľ
stoned75 commit: releases Date.new(2000,1,1).perl
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committable6 stoned75, ¬¶releases (43 commits): ¬ę¬Ľ 18:22
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guifa2 actually, yeah that's what it seems like. So I can safely use it in the slang 18:23
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stoned75 commit: release Date.new(2000,1,1).perl.say 18:24
committable6 stoned75, ¬¶release: ¬ęCannot find this revision (did you mean ‚Äúrelease‚ÄĚ?)¬Ľ
stoned75 commit: releases Date.new(2000,1,1).perl.say
committable6 stoned75, ¬¶releases (43 commits): ¬ęDate.new(2000,1,1)‚ź§¬Ľ
stoned75 6c: Date.new(2000,1,1).perl.say 18:26
committable6 stoned75, ¬¶6c (43 commits): ¬ęDate.new(2000,1,1)‚ź§¬Ľ
stoned75 commit: releases Date.new(2000,1,1).raku.say 18:27
committable6 stoned75, gist.github.com/b85742854a1de700eb...80575c0630
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stoned75 6c: Date.new(2000,1,1).raku.say 18:37
committable6 stoned75, gist.github.com/9fbf1618226560b39d...d7f45aba38 18:38
lizmat 6c: Date.new(2000,1,1).perl.say 18:39
committable6 lizmat, ¬¶6c (43 commits): ¬ęDate.new(2000,1,1)‚ź§¬Ľ
guifa2 There's a line that returns NQPMu. How can I access that in regular Raku? use core; or use core::NQPMu doesn't seem to find it 18:44
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timotimo i'm not sure if you can actually 18:50
but it should respond to annul check
guifa so "return Nil"? Or should I go with "return Mu" ? I'm still not quite yet to the point of being able to get things to compile. Every time I add a new lexical sub three more pop up. Rakuhydra 18:54
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timotimo i would recommend Mu 19:04
stoned75 commit: releases say ($*PERL.version, $*PERL.compiler.version) 19:06
committable6 stoned75, gist.github.com/1cc8f8fcca98c188bb...59ebbdacd3
stoned75 commit: releases say ($*PERL.version, $*PERL.compiler.version, Date.new(2001,1,1).perl) 19:09
committable6 stoned75, gist.github.com/7ec244c0ed36fdd9c8...07268ad45d
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sour hi, I looked at the rakudo star 2020.01 release (rakudo.org/post/announce-rakudo-st...-2020.01), and it linked to a page describing the implemented and WIP features of raku on rakudo, but it had a link that gives 404: raku.org/compilers/features . Does anyone know what happened with this? 20:11
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timotimo sour: that page was not well maintained, and had both outdated and misleading info 20:46
sour hm, I see, what would be the best sources to look at? 20:47
timotimo github.com/perl6/features 20:48
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cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Net::BGP (0.7.0) by 03JMASLAK 22:07
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