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SmokeMachine kawaii: github.com/FCO/Red/blob/master/t/4...formater.t 00:00
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kawaii SmokeMachine: I will test this tomorrow morning, thank you! :D 00:29
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SmokeMachine kawaii: thanks! and if is someone interested to know all experimental features on Red: fco.github.io/Red/tutorials/experimental 00:34
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guifa .tell lizmat OOPS, as per seems the usual, I’m a terrible ecosystem citizen and forgot to add Intl::Timezone to the ecosystem file list. My bad =/ 01:05
tellable6 guifa, I'll pass your message to lizmat
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Geth_ ecosystem: alabamenhu++ created pull request #520:
Adding Intl::Usertimezone to the list
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rir 'p6: my $sc = [ [0, 1], ]; $s.elems.say;' 02:51
ShimmerFairy p6: my $sc = [ [0, 1], ]; $s.elems.say; # doesn't work with the surrounding quotes 02:55
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$s' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $sc = [ [0, 1], ]; 7⏏5$s.elems.say; # doesn't work with the su
rir p6: my $sc = [ [0,1],]; 02:56
camelia ( no output )
rir p6: $sc.elems.say; 02:57
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$sc' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$sc.elems.say;
ShimmerFairy p6: my $sc = [ [0, 1], ]; $sc.elems.say;
camelia 1
ShimmerFairy You type $s instead of $sc in that first example
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rir Thanks, I am getting the desired construct but is there another way to write such an array as a literal? 02:58
ShimmerFairy m: my @sc = [0, 1],; say @sc.perl 03:00
camelia [[0, 1],]
ShimmerFairy That's a bit shorter, though you may find the trailing comma out in the open a bit weird. 03:01
m: my $sc = $[0,1]; say $sc.perl;
camelia $[0, 1]
ShimmerFairy m: my $sc = $[[0,1]]; say $sc.perl;
camelia $[0, 1]
rir The concern is that .elems == 1; 03:02
ShimmerFairy oh, in that case 03:03
rir m: my $sc = $[ [0,1] ]; $sc.elems.say; 03:04
camelia 2
ShimmerFairy m: my @sc = 0,1; say @sc.elems;
camelia 2
rir m: my $sc = $[ [0,1] , ]; $sc.elems.say;
camelia 1
ShimmerFairy m: my $sc = [0,1]; say $sc.elems; 03:05
camelia 2
ShimmerFairy The problem is that the trailing comma in [ [0,1], ] tells Raku you explicitly want a one-element list. 03:06
m: my $sc = [[0,1]]; say $sc.elems; 03:07
camelia 2
rir That is what I want! But I cannot find it documented; I.e.: [[ 0, 1] , ] 03:08
ShimmerFairy This demonstrates trailing comma at the beginning: docs.raku.org/language/list 03:09
rir m: say reduce &infix:<->, (10,); 03:14
camelia 10
rir m: say reduce &infix:<->, (10);
camelia 10
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rir Thanks ShimmerFairy. I would not have gotten that a ] is the same as a ) . 03:20
ShimmerFairy m: say [1,2].perl; say (1,2).perl; 03:23
camelia [1, 2]
(1, 2)
ShimmerFairy m: say [1,2].WHAT; say (1,2).WHAT;
camelia (Array)
ShimmerFairy rir: They do create different objects, but the way they function from a syntax perspective is the same. (An Array is a List you can change by adding or removing elements) 03:24
(docs.raku.org will, of course, better explain the differences between the two, but in general Array is a mutable List) 03:27
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Geth_ ecosystem: db373c2331 | L'Alabameñu++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Adding Intl::Usertimezone to the list
ecosystem: a05ce75293 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Merge pull request #520 from alabamenhu/patch-7

Adding Intl::Usertimezone to the list Thanks!
cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Red (0.1.21) by 03FCO
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El_Che_ a new release? i am on holiday but I will try to start the build thia evening 09:26
Altai-man_ Yes. Sorry for the delay. 09:27
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El_Che_ .tell Altai-man no sorries, thank you for the release 10:25
tellable6 El_Che_, I'll pass your message to Altai-man_
El_Che_ travis is building the linux packages now 10:26
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Altreus jnthn: in fact it was to *ensure* termination - I wanted to know about errors from the promise, so I had to somehow resolve it 10:58
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holyghost My Escape key is broken on my main develop machine (a portable) so I had to switch from vi/vim to xemacs :o) 11:15
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jnthn Altreus: That's also a very valid thing to do, yes :) 11:18
holyghost my main editor on macs was aquamacs with gnus as a news reader, I still remember the keys
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Altreus :) 11:21
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El_Che remap the keys? 11:44
caps locks is a good candidate
raku-bridge <tmtvl> I think vim has a Control+something-or-other bind to leave insert mode, but I've been using Emacs for long enough that the Vim bindings have left my mind. 11:49
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holyghost El_Che : I am slowing down like that and I also have to reprogram the leds ;-) 11:53
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holyghost "When I am on Windows, I use xemacs" :-) 11:57
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codesections Control + [ leaves insert mode in Vim. (in terminal vim, it's not really that it's *bound* to the same function as Esc, it's that it *is* Esc – or, rather, that Esc sends a control-[ key sequence 12:29
rypervenche I was just typing out the ctrl+[ option (also ctrl+c, although it also does something a bit differently) and then saw codesections's reply >< 12:33
holyghost ok thx 12:36
problem is I have to change my typing, but a bit of emacsen won't hurt 12:41
I'd like to program an editor in scheme, I started on one in objc in XCode but lost interest 12:42
I got "Learning GNU Emacs" (O'Reilly) as a present from my profs 12:43
goto-char is probbly the best/mot used function
That way I can hack lisp on several OSes 12:44
too bad slime.el is broken these days
slime was the best lisp mode
kawaii I have a submodule like `My::Example::Thing` which contains a variable, i.e. `my $test = 'some thing'`, but if I `use My::Example::Thing;` in my script and then try to call the variable I get `... not defined`, is there a proper way to expose it? I've tried using both `our` and `$GLOBAL::`. 12:45
Altai-man_ kawaii, setting it to `our` should just work. Also `is export`. 12:46
tellable6 2020-07-21T10:25:49Z #raku <El_Che_> Altai-man no sorries, thank you for the release
ShimmerFairy I believe 'our' would expose it as $Name::of::the::Module::test 12:48
kawaii Altai-man_: I tried `my $thing is export = ...` but got errors about expecting constraint 12:49
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Altai-man_ kawaii, `our $foo is export = 42`? 12:50
samebchase- holyghost: you can try sly as well
kawaii Altai-man_: `wasn't defined` :( 12:51
holyghost samebchase- : ok 12:52
I'm bit confused on many or less colors though, lost my .emacs file long ago
I had a nice black and blue system
I'll code up some custom-faces later on 12:53
ShimmerFairy I happen to like the dark solarized look (as in, looks like a Solaris computer) for my emacs, there's one or two themes out there for that.
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holyghost ShimmerFairy : right, CDE (KDE from sun) had ushca colour scheme 12:55
*such a
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El_Che rakudo-pkgs for 2020.07 are built and in the repos 13:46
Altai-man_ El_Che++ 13:47
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holyghost For the RSC, lizmat, JJMerelo and others : I would like to suggest a milestones file with raku goals, put online somewhere, so everyone gets the synergy and can coordinate 14:43
This way we see the future 14:44
Then if I may say so, if raku gets modularized, so APIs in the code, it would be easier to swap out things
That way you can build several rakus, e.g. by changing the network module 14:45
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guifa o/ 14:45
holyghost perl5 has a system ecosystem for that, for example HTTP::Tiny 14:46
just my 2 cents
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holyghost We see the future, s I said :-) 14:46
You get more people focused like that :-) 14:47
security through obscurity isn't all that, FWIW 14:49
Now I have to watch out that I don't repeat myself, but I will when RSC is in place 14:50
So perhaps a modular raku but some project goals such as masak's Algoloid Macro, online 14:53
To help each other out
By the modular system, you comprehend that it's for everyone's benefit 14:54
for raku it'd be a major rewrite though, which isn't always a good idea, OOP can be put there also 14:55
but that's against most C hackers who can do it in C instead of e.g. elf C++
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holyghost a OOP raku system can then be further developed managed e.g. by the same people above everyone 14:57
major nd minor systems
macos X is written in C++, whereas BSD nd linux are not (but in C) 14:58
the last are more monolythic
with C++ I mean pre-11,14,17 for a decent C++ compiler such as c++ on BSDs 15:00
or with "gcc -std=c89" for C++ on the command line 15:01
[Coke] holyghost: I am having trouble following what you're talking about. 15:02
holyghost the future :-) 15:03
I am elaborating a milestones web page 15:04
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[Coke] ok. hard to tell which points go together, which are separate, and what, the C/C++ is about. 15:05
holyghost I'll try to aid more when the RSC is in place, I'm just talking for a raku coding channel
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holyghost [Coke] : well, we'd have a more flexible compiler/interpreter in an OOP language 15:08
then again C has its major benefits, I am not against a C system
it's just talk for if we could do a OOP version of the perl6/raku system
Which I am not going to do on myself
but if there's interest, there'd be more code and mor hacking 15:09
It's somewhat personal, but I want some distraction from always the same C raku system 15:10
I have started unterpaganperl6 which uses formulas and is written in C++ for example
a formula is just backtrackable for syntax 15:11
you just reparse if needed
We cn go to commercial UNIXEN/Linuxen also 15:12
anything with a C/C++ compiler works
as gcc/g++ stands for
although c++ is more clean (as a compiler command) 15:13
We always need more I guess :-)
Most things are not some casual write or rewrite 15:14
C and C++ (or some other mjor OOP language) are just simple things for milestones file 15:17
timotimo how does "C and C++" exactly relate to raku? 15:18
holyghost I'm not saying that it's the only way to go
timotimo : it's more modular in C++, I'm not saying that the developers should turn towards C++ 15:19
C is fine by me as it cn be used to program OOP such as C++
I'm no OO zealot myself BTW 15:21
In C++ it's easier to have modulr compiler
but in C you can do the same thing 15:22
Everyone has put its time into raku in C, so we shouldn't throw it away I mean 15:23
patrickb c: '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | bc * | ''] $/
timotimo "it" is more modular "in" c++?
committable6 patrickb, ¦'': «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “all”?)»
tadzik you can write OO in C just fine, that's what Linux does, or Gtk 15:24
timotimo both rakudo and nqp are very big parts written in nqp, which is object-oriented
tadzik you don't need language features for it (though they can certainly be helpful)
patrickb m: '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | bc * | ''] $/
camelia ( no output )
holyghost sure, as I said, you can program OO in C
patrickb m: say 'matched' if '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | bc * | ''] $/ 15:25
camelia ( no output )
patrickb m: say 'matched' if '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | b * | ''] $/
camelia matched
holyghost I know Gtk widget construction system as you say
patrickb Is the above a bug?
timotimo glib in general
holyghost elaborating on milestones then again, for our synergy 15:26
rypervenche patrickb: Why do you think it would be a bug?
timotimo patrickb: i think it's supposed to say "null regex not allwoed"
rypervenche Oh
timotimo m: say "m" if '' ~~ m:i/^ [a | b | ] $/ 15:27
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Null regex not allowed
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say "m" if '' ~~ m:i/^ [a | b | 7⏏5] $/
expecting any of:
infix stopper
patrickb m: say 'matched' if '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | b * | ''] $/; say ', '; say 'matched' if '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | bc * | ''] $/;
camelia matched
holyghost again, more modular raku should be better for more hackers 15:28
patrickb The only difference is the "b" vs "bc". I don't get why that makes it match / not match the output.
holyghost hold on, I'll recapitulate when the RSC is in place
timotimo patrickb: b* can match "", bc* must at least have a b to match 15:30
patrickb oh
timotimo since * binds tightly to the c in the second
patrickb dumb
timotimo :)
Geth_ doc: codesections++ created pull request #3528:
Remove documentation for (nonexistent) `allowed` method
timotimo holyghost: how is raku not modular? 15:31
kawaii I have an object which I'm calling a method on for use in a string i.e. `description => "{$user1.nick} has given {$user2.nick} a reputation point!"`, however it's possible for `.nick` to return `Any` (nothing) if the user has no nickname, there's another method I can use `.username` instead though as a fallback, is there a clean way of doing this? :) 15:32
holyghost timotimo : modules can be replaced 15:33
swapped in and out
thus more programmatic systems
timotimo yeah? 15:34
holyghost sure
timotimo how is that not yet the case?
holyghost I am no raku developer, but if it's in already, fine by me
timotimo i think it would be worthwhile if you checked stuff out before writing pages full of irc messages with suggestions that don't apply? 15:35
holyghost a module is piece of code which can be swapped 15:36
as I said before 15:37
several developers can work on a module, wheres others do not
that way you integrate shit
Where I come from (inkscape and worldforge) you write OO for that 15:38
timotimo rakudo is already OO on its inside
holyghost Yes, e.g. a struct is a public class 15:41
that's the simplest idea possible
jnthn You seem to be thinking rakudo is written in C, but it isn't (well, maybe 0.5% is, and even that tiny bit's time is short...) 15:42
The only significant component written in C is MoarVM
Which is the runtime, not the compiler
timotimo in rakudo, Perl6::Compiler is a class, Perl6::Grammar is a class, Perl6::Optimizer is a class, all the nodes in the AST are classes, they get roles mixed in 15:43
holyghost I'm a lost soul on that
timotimo the Perl6::Grammar is derived from HLL::Grammar and also has roles mixed in
jnthn The RakuAST approach is even more object oriented :)
holyghost ok :-) 15:44
jnthn : in what language is the rest written ?
which languages ?
timotimo a big portion in nqp, the rest in raku 15:45
holyghost Anyway, I'm just a package writer but if things can be swapped out and in, I rest more easily :-) 15:46
holyghost lynxes
right so it's not quite perl, parrot VM
timotimo parrot VM is in the past 15:47
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holyghost sees the syntax 15:48
a parrot grammar engine :-) 15:50
CORBA lost :-)
[Coke] no
parrot isn't a thing anymore.
holyghost I know that
ok, so C++ is eventually out of the question and raku has rights over the nqp language 15:51
It's perl all the way 15:52
[Coke] no, it's not perl either. :)
holyghost :-)
I am happy it's has OOP features, which is logical for today's compilers/interpreters 15:53
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holyghost Thing is, modularnes is good in several ways, as I said 15:53
it's a good focus
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Petr37 Nice day 😎 Can i install Raku on windows 10 iot core? 15:54
patrickb Petr37: Did you try?
holyghost thx jnthn
Petr37 patrickb, not yet
patrickb Petr37, building rakudo could be a challenge as the iot core is very limited wrt what's installed. 15:55
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patrickb Petr37, but I'd expect it to run fine. 15:56
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patrickb Petr37: So maybe just go for the precompiled releases. 15:56
holyghost So perl6 uses perl7 :-)
patrickb Petr37: Do know that rakudo can use quite a lot of memory, so depending on the device you want to run on this might be a limiting factor.
Petr37 raspberry 4 8 gb ram 15:57
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patrickb Petr37: Then you shouldn't have any problem :-) 15:58
Petr37 patrickb, iot core have many limitions
timotimo holyghost: no 15:59
holyghost So I guess perl7 and nqp direct perl6 in the future
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patrickb m: say 'm' if '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | ''] $ /; say 'n' if '' ~~ m/ ^ [a | ''] $ /; 16:02
camelia n
timotimo oh interesting
s the :i makes it behave differently
patrickb ^ Is me dumb again?
timotimo that looks more like a bug 16:03
jnthn That looks like a bug
patrickb Should the correct output be '' or 'mn'?
jnthn mn 16:04
Since '' matches
MasterDuke bisectable6: say 'm' if '' ~~ m:i/ ^ [a | ''] $ /; say 'n' if '' ~~ m/ ^ [a | ''] $ /;
bisectable6 MasterDuke, Will bisect the whole range automagically because no endpoints were provided, hang tight
MasterDuke, Output on all releases: gist.github.com/4eb79bec0a2382796b...f1f0a7b23f
MasterDuke, Bisecting by output (old=2017.02 new=2017.03) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
patrickb will rakudobug
bisectable6 MasterDuke, bisect log: gist.github.com/c0e2b9cbfeb44e7ab1...f7f91b3194 16:05
MasterDuke, (2017-03-10) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22...9854e33739
MasterDuke, Output on all releases and bisected commits: gist.github.com/8de1da70b3cce877c5...b2f248be7e
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patrickb bisectable6: say 'm' if '' ~~ m:i/''/; say 'n' if '' ~~ m/''/; 16:14
bisectable6 patrickb, Will bisect the whole range automagically because no endpoints were provided, hang tight
patrickb, Output on all releases: gist.github.com/935125f2a0422665b4...72a9f8bbd9
patrickb, Bisecting by output (old=2017.02 new=2017.03) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
patrickb, bisect log: gist.github.com/ca23e459299fed58f6...29f592e921 16:15
patrickb, (2017-03-10) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22...9854e33739
patrickb, Output on all releases and bisected commits: gist.github.com/39012039e947288855...3dc7846c0b
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patrickb rakudobugged: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/3815 16:16
timotimo what's the command to get a bump's stuff linked? 16:17
rev: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22...9854e33739
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timotimo Geth_: ver github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22...9854e33739 16:20
Geth_ timotimo, version bump brought in these changes: github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/2017....-g4ceee06d
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holyghost lizmat, JJMerelo and other RSC members in the future : I will recpitulate for a minor/major discussion on modularization and a projectgoals/milestones file 16:23
patrickb github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/compare/2...-g58457845 16:24
github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/58...c91194f40a <- this is probably the offending commit
holyghost RSC : in the future I meant
a RSC bot would be nice BTW 16:25
(RSC == Raku Steering Council) 16:26
The "Big Head" from 3rd rock of the sun :-) 16:27
jnthn patrickb: Hm, wonder if it's github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/58...130f8cR615
patrickb Found that out already ;-) 16:28
Oh! You pointed to a specific line!
No, I didn't see that yet! 16:29
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AlexDaniel` holyghost: modularization? 16:30
holyghost AlexDaniel : see bove discussion, to swap things out and in 16:33
OOP wise
*above lol
AlexDaniel` what do you mean by that?
ah okay 16:34
holyghost To make more rakus :-)
not by patches but by more system libs/packages modularized
e.g. HTTP::Tiny in perl5 is int the perl5 tarball itself
but it's raku code 16:35
I'm not talking about raku packages
I'm taling about modifying the whole system piecewise
then getting more programmatic systems
so it has to be elevated, the raku system into modules I mean 16:36
it's better as it's adavnced OOP techniques which make the kernel 16:37
it's not in fully yet, but as nqp is a perloid it should do, I'm not sure about objects in nqp though 16:38
which enhances
blessed hashes I thought
I dunno :-)
timotimo no 16:41
holyghost java was programmed in java bck in the day now it's gcj
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timotimo objects in nqp are very very close to objects in rakudo 16:41
not blessed hashes
holyghost ok
timotimo gcj has been abandoned some years ago
holyghost openjdk, sunjdk 16:42
timotimo "It was part of the GNU Compiler Collection for over ten years but as of 2017 it is no longer maintained and will not be part of future releases"
gcj doesn't exist any more
openjdk and sun jdk don't use gcj, and didn't use gcj
holyghost I know
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holyghost blackdown.org, back in the day had the first sun java license which became the openjdk 16:44
the first license after windows and solaris jdk from sun itself of course :-) 16:45
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Altreus big giant head 16:50
holyghost lol
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holyghost modularization and milestones.txt, that's all I know :-) 16:54
or maybe milestones.php on github :-)
anyway, I'd better elevate with something else 16:57
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jdoege I see what was done for the "install" process for Raku and I think it is much, much improved. (ra)Kudos to all involved. 17:13
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tadzik :) 17:38
holyghost jdoege : I hd nothing to do with it, but we're doing our best :-) 17:40
El_Che++ 17:42
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holyghost a wiki would also be nice, e.g. wiki.raku.org, as on c2.com (smalltalk nd OO people) 18:13
There's even one for romhacking.net
on c2.com there's much more differentition thn on most wikis, it was the first wikiwikiweb ever made 18:14
tech talk by the wiki users on subjects
then we can comment on features of raku 18:15
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holyghost a wiki with logins 18:27
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holyghost a META server can hold the ips of raku among other things 18:40
and IPs of game servers :-)
perl6 MUDs 18:43
I'm sorry, raku MUDs
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holyghost maybe a nice project for someone, implement some finger daemon in raku or some other language, so one can read status messages and e.g. a milestones file (using telnet for example or http) 18:46
raku ports :-) 18:47
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Petr37 anyone use Raku in commercial project s? 19:11
moritz I know nine does 19:14
holyghost It's GPL2 and Artistic 2 licensed, so you can I guess
kawaii Yes, I am too
Petr37 thanks. i want use Raku in production (commercial) 19:16
holyghost It's a good programmatorical system 19:17
Petr37 holyghost, very good system )) 19:18
holyghost I concur 19:20
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oddp Are some of these commercial project performance sensitive and require some dirty tricks or reaching down to c here and there? Has anyone written some articles using raku in large projects? 19:22
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lizmat oddp: if there are "dirty tricks", I would assume it's mostly reaching out to NQP code in Raku to make hot code paths perform better 19:31
*not* reaching down to C (as is mostly the case with Perl and XS)
although some people might actually use NativeCall for their bespoke C code
but in any case, that would still be a lot cleaner interface 19:32
wrt articles about large projects: I would love to see and promote one!
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holyghost we should become a better system for e.g. large projects, nice programatorical elaborated 19:34
maybe I said too much :-) 19:35
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oddp Alright, thanks, guess I'll be doing a nqp deep dive then. Pretty much ignored it till now. 19:40
Liz, looking at some of the performance optimizations in recent raku commits, are there plans to revert some nqp usage back once raw raku code closes the gap more and more each release? 19:41
[Coke] I think that's a long term goal, yes. 19:43
gfldex oddp: Raku was designed to be able to self host. But that's a long way off.
oddp Okie dokie, good to know. 19:45
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lizmat oddp: yes, that's the goal 19:48
gfldex .oO( You need a lot of shoestring for a 30 year bootstrap. ) 19:50
lizmat is looking forward to using RakuAST to have sprintf generate code, rather than running a grammar for every call to sprintf 19:52
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[Coke] www.onlinegdb.com/Hy2lA2NxP ... wow 20:02
raku-bridge <theangryepicbanana> Just putting this here in case anyone is interested (since Raku is available on repl.it at repl.it/languages/raku): blog.repl.it/langjam 20:03
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raku-bridge <theangryepicbanana> since raku is pretty good for making languages (in case you haven't noticed ;) ) 20:04
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holyghost lol [Coke] 20:08
repl.italy :-) 20:09
guifa lizmat: that’s basically the same as me for all of the international formatting