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notagoodidea I am looking at both, did not know either. 00:00
before realizing the shadowing of the first pair I was doing
`@opt = @opt.split(@marks, :skip-empty, :v).Hash; for @opt.values -> $v is rw { $v .= split(" ") };` 00:01
MasterDuke and .classify-list, i can never remember the difference 00:02
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timotimo oooooh 02:37
notable6: weekly www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAknJlrlV7...ture=share
notable6 timotimo, Noted! (weekly)
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jdv79 anyone else notice mem leaking on long running processes? 04:01
on one i'm seeing ~20MB/minute unendiing growth 04:02
moon-child jdv79: hmmm, I have 220mb from a process that has no excuse to be using that much memory. But it seems pretty stable atm 04:15
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ToddAndMArgo Anyone on newbie duty? Can someone please point me to an explanation of when use "has" and "HAS" in a method declaration? 08:00
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El_Che ToddAndMArgo: in the method declaration? 08:28
I have only used has to declare attributes
ToddAndMArgo yes. Here is an example I have seen: 08:29
class PROCESSENTRY32 is repr('CStruct') { has int32 $.dwSize; has int32 $.cntUsage; has int32 $.th32ProcessID; has int32 $.th32DefaultHeapID; has int32 $.th32ModuleID; has int32 $.cntThreads; has int32 $.th32ParentProcessID; has int32 $.pcPriClassBase; has int32 $.dwFlags is rw; HAS uint16 @.szExeFile[MAX_PATH] is
It is the last one
HAS uint16 @.szExeFile[MAX_PATH] is CArray; 08:32
El_Che did you found this? docs.raku.org/language/nativecall#...s_with_HAS
it's a way to embed a data structure it seems (mind you, I haven't use it)
much like other langs do, it seems 08:33
ToddAndMArgo That is perfect. Thank you!
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Geth doc: 83f1119c1c | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
A few minor typo and grammar fixes
doc: b7d902349a | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
Extends description of Point

This closes #3764
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/nativecall
DOC#3764 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3764 [RFE][docs] Bugs in NativeCall example
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Geth doc: fa909813e1 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
Indexes "is native"

Closes #3473
doc: 0269421afc | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
Unifying convention of native subs body

Closes #3540
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/nativecall
linkable6 DOC#3473 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3473 [build][docs] Index "is native"
DOC#3540 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3540 [RFE][docs] Nativecall page should explain the usual practice for sub bodies
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notagoodidea leont: Do you know of any ressource that explain a bit more ARGS-TO-CAPTURE? I looked at the source of various GetOpt but it is a bit tedious to extract knowledge from them. 10:20
leont You've seen docs.raku.org/routine/ARGS-TO-CAPTURE ? 10:21
There's also RUN-MAIN, if you really want to take it all over 10:22
notagoodidea Yep but I am not sure to grasp the Callable part : it can be an introspection of MAIN but can it be another function that handle the argument parsing?
leont The default RUN-MAIN always uses MAIN
If you want something else, you need a RUN-MAIN override, which is more complicated 10:23
notagoodidea So you format our argument parsing in a Capture that fit MAIN understanding? 10:24
leont Yeah
notagoodidea Ok, il will dig more in the source of GetOpt modules, thanks :) 10:25
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notandinus i want to unset 3 keys from a hash by sorting it, i'm currently keeping record of number of hashes that have been unset, is there a way to do this easily? 11:45
i looked at pick but looks like it doesn't follow the order 11:46
ix.io/2KOw -- the code
timotimo notandinus: how about this 11:48
m: my %hash = <hi one bye two florb eightyeight frob bloop cookie cake>; say "first 3 keys are", %hash.pairs.sort(*.value).reverse.map(*.key).head(3); dd %hash; %hash{%hash.pairs.sort(*.value).reverse.map(*.key)}:delete; dd %hash 11:50
camelia first 3 keys are(bye hi florb)
Hash %hash = {:bye("two"), :cookie("cake"), :florb("eightyeight"), :frob("bloop"), :hi("one")}
Hash %hash = {}
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timotimo nope that's not it i forgot to .head(3) it again and deleted everything 11:50
m: my %hash = <hi one bye two florb eightyeight frob bloop cookie cake>; say "first 3 keys are", %hash.pairs.sort(*.value).reverse.map(*.key).head(3); dd %hash; %hash{%hash.pairs.sort(*.value).reverse.map(*.key).head(3)}:delete; dd %hash
camelia first 3 keys are(bye hi florb)
Hash %hash = {:bye("two"), :cookie("cake"), :florb("eightyeight"), :frob("bloop"), :hi("one")}
Hash %hash = {:cookie("cake"), :frob("bloop")}
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notandinus timotimo: thanks, i didn't know of head method and :delete thing 11:54
timotimo :)
the postcircumfix operators for [] (arrays or Positional in general) and {} (hash or Associative in general) take lists, and there's different adverbs (the :blah at the end) that can give different behaviours, not just deleting, but also returning pairs instead of only values, or returning keys and values in one big list 11:55
notandinus i see, i'm reading up on it 11:56
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notandinus how do i write this? -- ix.io/2KOP 12:59
^ in a better way
basically i want to get $a if it's defined, if not then get $b if $b is defined, if not then get 4.Int 13:00
jmerelo notandinus: using with? with $config<profiles>{$profile}<rotate><keep> rakudocs.github.io/language/contro...th_without 13:01
notandinus:but TIMTOWDI. So it's not better or worse, just another way.
MasterDuke $config<profiles>{$profile}<rotate><keep> // $config<rotate><keep> // 4 13:03
notandinus jmerelo: actualy i want to run the same set of commands on all conditions
MasterDuke: thanks, // will do the job 13:05
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notandinus actually // made lots of things easy 13:20
Do i just `run umask 077` to set umask? 13:29
i'm trying to do the equivalent of `umask 077' perl code
jmerelo notandinus: it's qx IARC in Raku. Also, there's a `run` command: docs.raku.org/routine/run 13:30
notandinus i see, thanks, i tried qx, shell but looks like it doesnt affect the script 13:38
i later make a tar archive with `run'
jmerelo Also, you've noticed it should be umask 0777, right? 13:39
notandinus oh
jmerelo ah, no, 077 is also a thing...
notandinus i always used 077,
jmerelo Anyway. Just check if you've got the mask right, that might be it... 13:40
notandinus: yep, that's a different thing, sorry.
notandinus so i checked the umask and looks like it was not changed
m: shell 'umask 077'; shell 'umask'
camelia 0022 13:41
notandinus ^^
jmerelo notandinus: also IARC umask affects the shell it's run from, isn't that correct? It's not a system-wide thing. It's not going to work next time you open a shell, as you do with "shell"
notandinus ah i see, yeah it affects the shell it's run from 13:42
is there a way to make it affect the script ?
jmerelo if you use run, it does not spawn a shell.
notandinus also what's IARC, never read that before
but run fails
jmerelo If I remember correctly
notandinus m: run<umask 077>
camelia Cannot resolve caller run(...); none of these signatures match:
(*@args where { ... }, :$in = "-", :$out = "-", :$err = "-", Bool :$bin, Bool :$chomp = Bool::True, Bool :$merge, Str :$enc, Str:D :$nl = "\n", :$cwd = Code.new, :$env, :$win-verbat…
notandinus m: run <umask 077> 13:43
camelia The spawned command 'umask' exited unsuccessfully (exit code: 1, signal: 0)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
notandinus ^^ because there is no umask(1)
jmerelo run uses the kernel, it does need to be given the whole path
or is a shell thing...
Let me check
notandinus jmerelo: i see, 'A' in IARC got me confused
jmerelo: yeah it doesn't use the shell 13:44
jmerelo Yep, I can't even remember the acronyms...
notandinus but because there is no umask(1) (umask program) it fails
jmerelo yep, umask is shell built-in
notandinus right
this is not an issue though, i've just set the parent's dir permissions correctly 13:45
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jmerelo yep 13:45
notandinus so do you know of a way to do this umask thing?
jmerelo notandinus: I was checking out to see if IO::Path could do that, but it does not... The problem is that I don't think there's support, even at the MoarVM level, for setting default file attributes 13:46
notandinus: this is the library MoarVM uses for file access, and check out what's there github.com/libuv/libuv/issues/1693 13:47
notandinus: also this issue github.com/Raku/old-issue-tracker/issues/3680 13:49
notandinus jmerelo: ah i see, thanks 13:51
jmerelo notandinus: I think that you should probably look at lizmat's p5* modules. Or a POSIX distribution. 13:52
JRaspass Is there scope for increasing what IO::Path can do? I would love to be about to set the mtime without resorting to shelling out to touch 13:57
El_Che mijn oudste laptop hier is van 2007 ofzo en batterij is nog altijd ok :) 13:58
jmerelo JRaspass: I don't think so. As I said, all the filesystem stuff is done through NQP and eventually through libuv in MoarVM. And libuv does not seem to have support for that kind of thing. 13:59
notandinus jmerelo: i checked github.com/lizmat/P5built-ins, looks like umask is not present there too, i think i'll workaround this for now
hmm yeah how could umask be there when libuv doesn't support it 14:00
jmerelo notandinus: possibly using nativecall. You can still get through POSIX calls using it.
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Geth doc: codesections self-assigned xt/check-signatures.t skips all tests github.com/Raku/doc/issues/3765
5cad6f55bf | (Stoned Elipot)++ | doc/Type/Associative.pod6
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[Coke] .seen codesections 15:18
tellable6 [Coke], I saw codesections 2020-12-17T22:17:16Z in #raku: <codesections> interesting, thanks
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chovy how does raku compare with v? 15:20
tyil v?
chovy vlang.io
tyil just, the letter v?
chovy heh
tyil no clue then, I've never heard of the programming language v 15:21
chovy i'm liking vlang but community is too small. can you write desktop apps in raku?
compiled. etc
tyil how would you define 'app'? I use a desktop, and I write programs in Raku for it from time to time
but I dont really make "gui" applications
chovy desktop gui
with native gui support
win/mac/linux 15:22
tyil there's support for GTK, at least
but not yet for Qt iirc
you should theoretically be able to use qt libs through nativecall relatively easy 15:23
but perhaps it's better to discuss that with someone who knows nativecall :p
perryprog I can't imagine that'd be the best way of writing a cross-platform app though ;p
tyil probably not 15:24
chovy perryprog: what you suggest? 15:25
perryprog I don't have any suggestion for raku specifically; I don't have enough experience with it. 15:26
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notagoodidea perryprog: I don't know of a easy to create desktop program with native gui support. 15:48
Maybe Red if you want to look at esoteric/small communities languages if they finally ported Red/View to other OS than Windows. 15:49
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lizmat wouldn't a "modern" program nowadays not use a browser and a locally running webserver backend with something like WebSockets interacting ? 15:49
El_Che chovy: with Go I don't see much the point of v
chovy its not google 15:50
tadzik perryprog: I delivered a cross-platform Gtk app in Rust a while ago, it wasn't bad
notagoodidea lizmat: It depends what you want. It is the easiest solution for small desktop stuff or libgui and some others "low-level" lib using SDL and so.
tadzik and by cross-platform I mean "developed on linux, shipped for windows" :P
perryprog Oh nothing wrong with GTK, I just meant rolling your own wrapper for it in Raku might be a pain 15:51
tadzik not sure if it qualifies for "easy" though, neither the "rust" nor "gtk" part (or "windows" for that matter)
notagoodidea If you can leverage Gtk or Qt, you good to go imho. Even Tk.
El_Che people are often using go or rust in the backend en dart+flutter on the front
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perryprog (And I'm not sure if a Raku app period would be a good idea, but that's just my opinion ;p) 15:51
tadzik heh
El_Che (again by the googles)
tadzik Gtk::Simple is decent afaik
notagoodidea El_Che: flutter have gone full Native or not yet?
codesections lizmat: I've actually been surprised by how *rarely* I see that architecture these days 15:52
notagoodidea perryprog: It is not a worse idea than a Python/Pick your poison app.
El_Che their baseline is "Flutter is Google’s UI toolkit for building beautiful, natively compiled applications for mobile, web, and desktop from a single codebase. "
I have written desktops apps in the past and all I remember is a world of pain 15:53
(java and perl, mostly)
perryprog JVM for desktop apps isn't that bad IMO
El_Che it's terrible 15:54
perryprog I think it's just as good as GTK or Qt.
El_Che mostly for the user
tadzik still better than Electron im
perryprog Definitely
tadzik not that it's a high bar, but it's a depressingly common bar these days 15:55
El_Che got stuck in the pre java fx days
tadzik isn't flutter this thing that reimplements half of HTML resulting in a11y nightmare?
El_Che isn't electro pretty close to what lizmat was suggesting? 15:56
tadzik or am I thinking about something else
perryprog Most Electron based apps are a11y nightmares.
Web based "desktop" apps, that is
perryprog glares at Discord
tadzik well, web itself actually gives you a lot of options to make it right, if you're willing to make the effort 15:57
codesections El_Che: well, Electron is what lizmat was suggesting, plus bundling your own (bloated and out of date) version of the browser
perryprog tadzik: this is true 15:58
Slack for examine is pretty good at it
And they also allow the option of third party clients
codesections I meant something that can run in a tab of an existing browser session
lizmat fwiw, I was *not* proposing bundling the browser, but work with whatever browser a user has
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El_Che lizmat: we'll decide what you proposed! :) 15:59
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lizmat ah, ok... :-) 15:59
codesections yeah, that's what I took you to mean
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notagoodidea codesections: If you user tend to have to much tab opens (hello me), that will be a mess and make the app feel slow when opening the browser. 15:59
codesections and that's what I don't see all that often (hardly ever, apart from home router config pages) 16:00
tadzik notagoodidea: hmm, if your computer is overloaded with its web browser, would a second web browser actually help? 16:01
El_Che yes 16:02
if it's another process
but, just close some tabs, you hoarders
notagoodidea tadzik: what I don't see is better to me (as a user). 16:03
tadzik notagoodidea: what is the thing you don't see in this scenario?
notagoodidea my overloaded browser when you span the second one without opening the first? 16:04
codesections plus you always have the *option* to open a new instance of the browser
notagoodidea How it will affect the state of the previous session of the user? Or open in incognito mode so you don't affect the session of the user?
tadzik notagoodidea: wouldn't the second browser be just as slow as the first one if you're already overloaded though? That's what I'm not getting
with firefox, and probably others too, you can have completely isolated browser instances for different purposes, fwiw 16:05
notagoodidea Ah oh, I am thinking about the situation when none was already open.
El_Che wouldn't the memory of the first browser be paged out?
tadzik notagoodidea: oh, I see
notagoodidea tadzik: That's is good to know! 16:06
codesections oh, where none is open *and* it's set to re-open all tabs?
tadzik yeah, that could indeed be awful 16:07
separate browser instances are probably more memory-friendly too, since it's actually the same browser running each time and the OS is likely somewhat smart about it
codesections (I also hoard tabs, but don't restore my session - closing the browser is my way of declaring tab bankruptcy!)
tadzik heh 16:08
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tadzik I only hoard a few tabs of "I do want to read this, and I know that if I bookmark it then I never will" 16:08
(and then I never read it and just close the tab with a sigh after a few weeks)
perryprog A few weeks? Rookie numbers.
tadzik :)
codesections same, except that I don't have the "close the tab" step 16:09
[Coke] I tend to have under a half dozen windows open longer than a day or two. my kid regularly has 100 for weeks. I don't understand it.
codesections hence the need for bankruptcy
notagoodidea codesections: One day I will be able to dot that one day. I hoard tab with the group manager plugin based on context. Like my "Job hunt" group have LinkedIn and a few applications I have to answer too now or later, some group are contextualized by activity, if I want to look at Chess stuff, I want to have X websites at hand. 16:10
I don't have find a good way to do it yet. Containers don't help to not hoard tabs. 16:11
tadzik the fact that hoarding tabs like this is a common theme makes me think that there's an enormous room for improvement in bookmark managers 16:12
codesections agreed
notagoodidea agreed
tadzik if my home page had a section for "bookmarked last week" and another for "bookmarked last year" I'll be likely to actually click on them, or just remove them once I forget what I wanted them for
codesections and browser UI in general
tadzik I still wonder if we'd ever get browser tabs if window managers were better in the IE6 days 16:13
though most of the mainstream ones still aren't :P
notagoodidea If I good group-bookmark and reopen the all group that will reduce a lot of hoarding.
tadzik but instead all the browsers are trying to reimplement window managers, poorly 16:14
notagoodidea s/good/could
tadzik notagoodidea: I'm sure there are browser extensions for that, actually
notagoodidea Kind of, there is a few with different trade-off, tried a few, I am using Simple Tab Group rigth now but meh. 16:16
tadzik yeah, native stuff tends to work better when it's available. I'm yet to see a Speed Dial as good as the one from old Opera 16:18
or new Opera, for that matter
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notagoodidea Trying to make it play nice with Containers in Firefox is a chore too. 16:20
El_Che I love firefox containers 16:21
tadzik they're a lifesaver
El_Che certainly as cookie autodelete works well with them 16:22
notagoodidea I tend to use more more fo thematic grouping than anything so lots of friction on the way. 16:27
El_Che notagoodidea: you can sort tabs by container 16:29
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melezhik .tell tony-o - please let me know if you need any help with new eco system / sparrow testing things ... I'd glad to help ... 16:32
tellable6 melezhik, I'll pass your message to tony-o
melezhik is it a bug in raku.land? Sparky should 0.0.29, but it's still 0.0.26 - modules.raku.org/dist/Sparky:cpan:MELEZHIK VS raku.land/cpan:MELEZHIK/Sparky 16:37
JRaspass Looks like the version in the META6.json wasn't updated, it shows 0.0.26 in the 29 tarball for me 16:39
we generally trust the json file, not the filename
codesections unrelated: there's a global Slack outage at the moment. 16:40
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patrickb . 16:40
tellable6 hey patrickb, you have a message: gist.github.com/5e56fc6d95ab0b4d0f...4cf5bd87f2
codesections smug IRC user
jdv79 nobody knows who runs the irc logger? 16:43
melezhik codesections ++ we see at our \@job 16:44
jdv79 i just realized its down. it looked ok until i tried to send a msg. 16:45
melezhik JRaspass, - github.com/melezhik/sparky/blob/ma...6.json#L38 , oh , interesting ... 16:46
MasterDuke the colabti website was (still is?) down also
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melezhik I use sparrowhub.io/plugin/raku-utils-mi6/0.000003 to release new versions ... I wonder if it's mi6 issue ... 16:46
JJAtria[m] I've had similar issues with mi6 occasionally not updating a version number. I've made it a point to manually check before uploading nowadays 16:47
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JJAtria[m] Although I think in my case it was not the META file that was not bumped, but the version in one of the modules 16:48
JRaspass i like the image in the markdown though, looks good on the site :-) 16:49
melezhik JRaspass, yeah, thanks , looks good for me to ))) 16:50
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jdv79 moritz: you ran the first irc logger, right? 17:04
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tony-o 2. 17:36
tellable6 2021-01-04T16:32:46Z #raku <melezhik> tony-o - please let me know if you need any help with new eco system / sparrow testing things ... I'd glad to help ...
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tony-o .tell melezhik start uploading with fez would help me identify some issues with it 17:36
tellable6 tony-o, I'll pass your message to melezhik
melezhik tib started a lot of issues/feature requests for Sparky - github.com/melezhik/sparky/issues , if someone is interested in participating, please let us know ))) 17:40
or just comments would be useful ... 17:41
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tib hey melezhik \o 17:43
melezhik hey! 17:44
tib @all or just come to drop a star or leave a smiley on an issue ! :) 17:48
melezhik Sparky CI is written on Raku, here is a discussion for people who think about try it out - github.com/melezhik/sparky/discussions/43 17:54
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linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/Associative
moritz jdv79: yes, I did 19:49
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mst nnn/w 409 20:34
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jdv79 moritz: just curious if you knew who runs the current incarnation 21:41
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Geth problem-solving/solution-250: 5637dc6f8d | Altai-man++ | solutions/documentation/search-categories.md
Provide a solution document for github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/250

  "Documentation search categories are not standartized"
Fixes github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/250
problem-solving: Altai-man++ created pull request #256:
Provide a solution document for #250
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