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Set by ChanServ on 14 October 2019.
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tbrowder ref backtick on inline comment: i think the backtick is needed to at least simplify parsing. if you dig into rakudu/src/Perl6/*nqp you'll see how magic '#' is relative to code context. 00:30
but PRs are welcome i'm sure 00:31
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nwc10 The error: Cannot locate native library 'libssl.so': libssl.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 06:21
is sort of known, isn't it? I remember it being a problem before. 06:22
I see that this has been updated:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 593696 Feb 16 23:08 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so.1.1
and I assume that this is now causing the load failure for the OpenSSL bindings 06:23
but as this is an $ork thing that I didn't build or install, I'm not actually sure exactly what the setup is, or how to update it
(there are docs! but not about that)
aha right. So what one does is go back through root's bash history: 06:26
apt purge libssl-dev
seems that when I install that again, it works.
thank you teddybear
and have a good morning :-) 06:27
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guifa2 is confused 06:38
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sortiz is curious about the confusion 06:41
guifa2 the nwc10 self conversation ha 06:42
sortiz Ah, thats a bug in OpenSSL bindings: I suspect it uses an unversionized 'is native' 06:44
So depends on the link created by the devel package. 06:45
I did not have time to comment. 06:47
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summerisle Anyone else here use raku-mode? 06:51
sortiz I'm a vimmer, sorry. 06:52
summerisle no worries, i prefer the vim way of doing things, i just can't stand VimL :^) 06:53
so i use evil 06:54
but nonetheless, raku-mode has made me consider learning how to build indent rules for emacs just because of how many weird quirks it has
according to the documentation, it's based on css-mode 06:55
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tbrowder summerisle: i use raku-mode and i wish you could fix indenting, especially with HERE docs 11:32
codesections summerisle: +1 from me. Working on raku-mode indentation has been on my "todo someday/I hope someone else does" wishlist for a while 11:36
El_Che now that rakudo-pkg has repos, I can add it to my production work containers where light scripting is needed :)
\o/ 11:37
codesections Raku-mode also has some issues with recognizing strings/the end of strings, especially with custom delimiters
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codesections (or in regexen/grammers) 11:38
(and by "issues", I mean `my $s = q|'|;` can break highlighting for a whole file) 11:42
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patrickb tbrowder: tyil and I recently talked about a Pod parsing module. Our conclusion was that a raku module to parse Pod written in plain Raku (i.e. not executing the file in question) would be a strategically wise thing to have. Basically Github supporting Pod and our module browser websites supporting pod well block on this. I imagine building a Pod 12:15
parsing module (either by writing from scratch or by extracting the Raku core Pod parser) could be a good GSoC project. But for that we need a mentor that has some knowledge of the Raku Pod parsing. I might miss someone I currently don't think about, but I think you are currently the only person with up to date knowledge of the Pod stack. So, would
you be willing to mentor such a project?
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tadzik ah, good memories 12:15
I actually prototyped the original pod parser as a module :)
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tbrowder sounds like tadzik is a volunteer :-D 12:17
kerframil hi. newbie question: if I want to test a trivial modification to a module that I was otherwise unable to install with zef, how would I do that?
tadzik :D
I'm not even up-to-date on Raku, not to mention Pod
tbrowder seriously, i appreciate your asking, but i really am not up to the task both time and energy wise. 12:18
patrickb tbrowder: OK. Thanks for considering! 12:19
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patrickb tbrowder: Do you agree that you are currently the only person knowing the Pod stack well? Or is there someone else I missed? 12:20
tbrowder keframio
well, finanalyst has been creating a lot of pod modules 12:21
patrickb A quick google for keframio yielded nothing. Is there a typo? 12:23
tbrowder keframio: in the top of your fork of the module, try executing "zef test ."
keframil: ^^^ 12:24
patrickb Ah! That wasn't directed at me.
kerframil tbrowder: thanks. giving it a go.
tbrowder patrickb: but i agree that would be a great gsoc project. 12:26
kerframil tbrowder: it passed. is running "zef install ." acceptable at this point, or should I do something else? 12:27
went ahead and did it. seems fine. 12:29
tbrowder you can submit it as a PR to the module author's repo 12:30
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tbrowder you can also install it on your host and use it: zef install . 12:31
kerframil indeed. I now have working Readline support, which is nice. 12:32
tbrowder but you should absolutely submit the PR
kerframil I don't use GitHub, so I'll take my chances on an email.
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tbrowder any reason not to use github? 12:32
sure is easier to fix modules 12:33
kerframil bugs.gentoo.org/747592#c6 12:34
that's part of it.
tbrowder patrickb: it may be heresy but i would consider not using the core parser to extract pod. 12:35
and i would assist where i could but not as a lead. 12:36
patrickb tbrowder: Just to make sure I understand correctly. When creating a standalone module (not depending on the core), you think it's better to create that module from scratch instead of extracting the core Pod parser and cleaning it up. Correct? 12:38
tbrowder i mean use raku grammar but not at the nqp level.
patrickb Is the core Pod parser in such a bad shape? 12:39
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tbrowder i won't say bad, but i find it hard to make any more small changes. i think places need a rewrite because bits are assembled too early to know the final result of the intent. 12:44
a good example is the =defn
the first line needs to be kept separate from the rest of the block but the entire block text is collected at once. 12:45
tadzik a good argument for it being in the core grammar is that it has places where it needs to parse the same quote rules as the last of Raku
tbrowder that is true. quotes are tough. 12:46
tadzik and since it's (was?) a large, complex and not really reusable part of Std, it was more sensible to just merge them together (since it is all but one language after all) than maintain to separate copies of quote rules etc
if you feel like an archeologies, my gsoc reports and applications from 2011 may still be around on the internet to explain my thinking back then 12:47
tbrowder that would be useful for sure
patrickb Oh, so you did a gsoc working on Pod! I didn't know about that! 12:49
tbrowder ditto
tadzik yeah, that was all my fault :P
(and moritz, masak, jnthn and Damian) 12:50
(possibly more)
codesections re: archaeology -- it is interesting how much opportunity there is for that. I recently found some helpful info by following a link to the last time a feature was discussed on IRC. 12:52
in 2011
moritz I had IRC logs dating back to 2005 or so. And deleted them due to GDPR. Fuck that. 12:54
tbrowder brave new world 12:55
codesections well, this was on the public log, so no worries there
And it was kind of nice: it was like moritz and Larry were debating my PR, a decade before I wrote it :D 12:56
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patrickb reboots 13:05
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leont In general, our POD tooling is fairly primitive 13:33
I would welcome a standalone POD parser, even if I'm not sure it will solve my particular problem 13:34
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ppppp www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIlK4EKt3wg 13:46
please support my channel
i want to show my bully classmate😱 that my youtube videos are good😁
codesections lizmat: can you or one of the other mods for this channel address ^^^ 13:47
tadzik . o O ( youtube is not doing, allah is doing ) 13:48
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ppppp hello creatures of the waste land 13:59
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Scimon So. Lots of stuff is going to be changing for me real soon now. I'm going to see if I can manage to survive without a full time permanent job. (What fun). I'm hoping I'm going to have some more time to devote to Raku with module writing, general writing and talks. I'll keep people informed. :) 14:31
El_Che Scimon: good luck 14:32
Hopefully a positive choice
codesections Scimon: Best of luck! 14:33
masak pong! 14:34
Scimon I trying to stay positive. If anyone has thoughts on modules that would be useful to have written I may be able to put some time to it.
masak guifa2: you were wondering why the syntax is #`[] and not #[] ? 14:35
guifa2 masak: correct. Synopses had #[] but it got changed somewhere along the way to need the backtick
masak yes. let me tell you what I remember. 14:36
I also suspect there is a good commit to consult in the specs repository
IIRC, multiline comments were introduced late, basically after $Larry had decided they were not needed
the party line was, use several to-end-of-line comments, or use Pod 14:37
codesections Scimon: have you considered applying for a grant from YAS (aka TPF)? It'd be great to see more people getting paid for improving the Raku ecosystem (if you have the time right now)
masak and then #[] comments came along
Scimon codesections: You know... I had not... but Hmmmm.
masak I think the backtick was added because it was a bit too accident-prone to have a [ or a ( start a comment _without_ the corresponding intent to make it a multiline comment 14:38
that may not be the satisfying answer you're looking for, but I think that was it
naturally, since TimToady wasn't very sold on multiline comments in the first place, he didn't mind giving them an even uglier syntax with the backtick :P
guifa2 masak: the risk of typos makes sense, but man does it add to linenoise for inline comments 14:39
masak quickly checks whether TimToady is around to confirm or deny this
seems not.
guifa2: to be perfectly honest, I just never use the multiline comments
and to be a bit cynical, just a bit, I think that was kind of the idea 14:40
guifa2 The only time I use multiline is to uickly and easily comment out a large block
masak make them ugly, I mean
guifa2 #`<<<<< at the top
masak guifa2: there are better ways
guifa2 and then >>>>> at the bottom
masak guifa2: surround them with a `while 0 { .. }`
then they are commented out, but they still get syntax-checked :D
m: say "OH HAI" 14:41
camelia OH HAI
masak m: while 0 { say "thiz no run" }; say "OH HAI"
camelia OH HAI
masak m: while "commented out" but False { say "thiz no run" }; say "OH HAI"
camelia OH HAI
codesections guifa2: If the syntax was introduced late, then it might not be about typos as avoiding breaking code. #[ seems like something that might exist just by accident 14:42
masak there are many options for multi-line commenting-out, not involving the backtick :)
by the way, the backtick is otherwise fairly unused in Raku. the idea is that it's "for DSLs"
Scimon One thing I'd like is for #| comments to include line breaks. So if I write a three line one (with three #|) it formats it like that when you do a -? hmmm you know what on Monday I might look into that.
guifa2 Scimon: I believe there is work being done on that. 14:43
masak Scimon: sounds good -- please do :)
guifa2 there's a flag, actually I think
I forget who was working on it. tbrowder I think
codesections (I use #* to note TODO comments, so my code would break if #* became meaningful)
guifa2 uses, *ahem*, # TODO 14:44
codesections er, well, _some_ of my code. I don't commit TODO's _all_ the time :D
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codesections I use #* TODO:/n# * item 1/n# * item 2 14:45
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codesections that way, I can search for #* to find them (saving keystrokes over searching # TODO, you see) 14:46
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codesections yes, potentially an over-optimization :)
masak my favorite recent pattern is to express TODOs as tests; I make them try something and then check for the expected failure/exception 14:48
there are few things as good as executable comments ;)
not to mention comments that shout loud and clear in the test suite
codesections haha, clearly your TODOs are more specific than mine! 14:49
Mine are often TODO shorten
or similar
masak doesn't have to be all that specific. if it's a "TODO implement function 'foo'", then the test is `(foo)` -- exception: unbound 14:50
codesections So you write it in such a way that the program won't execute until it's done? Or is that wrapped in a test somehow/in your test file? 14:52
masak technically, I did this for NYI features
I still have minor "TODO" comments scattered all over the code base :P
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masak codesections: github.com/masak/bel/blob/master/l...emented.pm 14:53
PimDaniel \o
masak (and there's a corresponding test file that runs those as tests)
PimDaniel: o hai
PimDaniel What is the proper way to empty an array. I mean other than : = (); 14:54
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say @a; @a.pop while @a; say @a 14:55
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
PimDaniel Same question for an hash. I thought there were a specified method.
masak laughs peevishly
it seems I've become worse at giving advice since I was last active here 14:56
El_Che Scimon: generic oidc/oauth2 support
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say @a; @a = Nil; say @a
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say @a; @a = Empty; say @a
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say @a; @a = []; say @a 14:57
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; say @a; @a = [[[[]]]]; say @a
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
PimDaniel masak thank's.
but the question is just for curiosity and is more subtile. 14:58
masak I'm always up for more subtle
Scimon El_Che: That's a great idea. 14:59
PimDaniel Ouais; désolé suis français. In many languages there's a specified keywork to empty arrays/hashes, etc...
masak you did notice my `Empty` example above, right? 15:00
El_Che Scimon: there is already a Google specific one that could be used as an example
PimDaniel for an hash what about more simple than %h = %(); ??? 15:02
masak pas besoin de s'excuser d'ĂȘtre français...
PimDaniel for an array what about more simple than @a = () or [].
masak m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2; %h = (); say %h 15:03
camelia {}
masak no need even for the %
PimDaniel yes
Well i think my question has no response. 15:04
masak not sure I understand what your question is yet
m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a.clear; say @a 15:05
camelia No such method 'clear' for invocant of type 'Array'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
masak you're looking for something like a .clear method?
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PimDaniel In python you say : del list to delete list. 15:06
That's it!
masak no, `del list` would remove the entire variable. please don't do that
well, in that case I think you're right. there is no such .clear method in Raku -- or if there is, I missed it 15:07
the idiomatic way is `@a = ();` and `%h = ();`
PimDaniel just by curiosity: i translate python code to raku and it brings me to unusefull phylosophic questions may be! 15:08
masak yes, that's good
seeing the same thing from different perspectives at once, like one of those cubist Picasso paintings 15:09
PimDaniel ok i'll use idiomatic way like an idiot.
masak :)
PimDaniel Thank's masak, back later.
masak curtsies
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masak I skipped the bit where I wanted to say that I think clearing an array or hash is an antipattern 15:10
there's a time and a place
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PimDaniel Hi! Now is there something other than @lit.elems - 1 to get the last indice of an array? 15:19
like $# in perl5
masak m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a[ *-1 ] 15:20
camelia 3
Scimon m: my @a = 1,2,3;say @a.end;
camelia 2
PimDaniel I don't want the last value but the indice.
Scimon docs.raku.org/type/Array#(List)_routine_end
masak index. 15:21
Scimon m: my @a = <a b c d e>;say @a.end;
camelia 4
Scimon :D
PimDaniel .end
masak yes, .end is it
m: my @a[2..7]; say @a.end
camelia 1
PimDaniel m: my @a = 1 .. 10; say @a.end;
camelia 9
masak hm.
PimDaniel m: my @a = 1 .. 100; say @a.end; 15:22
camelia 99
PimDaniel ok it works, thank's!
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masak I remember the first time I saw .end, I misunderstood it as meaning @a[*-1] 15:23
guess there's kind of a built-in ambiguity there between "last index" and "last element" 15:29
codesections m: say ('a'..'z').end; say ('a'..'z').tail 15:30
camelia 25
codesections but we _do_ have a method for that, which helps a bit
masak (a) I had missed .tail; thanks 15:31
(b) the name doesn't quite do it for me; to me, "tail" means "all the elements except the first" 15:32
m: my ($head, @tail) := (1, 2, 3, 4, 5); say @tail
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@tail'; expected Positional but got Int (2)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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masak m: my ($head, @tail) := [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]; say @tail 15:33
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@tail'; expected Positional but got Int (2)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
masak m: my ($head, *@tail) := [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]; say @tail
camelia [2 3 4 5]
masak right. like that.
codesections m: say ('a'..'e').tail(*-1) 15:34
camelia (b c d e)
Scimon m: my ($head, @tail) = (1,2,3,4,5);say @tail; # Or without binding.
camelia [2 3 4 5]
masak I guess it must be because conceptually, lists are like snakes. whatever's not the head is the tail.
Scimon: oh right :)
gotta learn about this fancy not-binding thing 15:35
Scimon I think I don't use binding enough. I probably should.
masak .oO( it's action-packed... at a distance ) 15:37
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Scimon I feel that assignment and binding and when to use them might be a really good talk. (I've found that if I give a talk on something it means I put a LOT of effort into learning it deeply). 15:43
rjbs When picking what raku to install and use (for fun) is there any reason to pick something other than "the version closest to today's date from rakubrew"? 15:49
Scimon Personally I'm a big fan of github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg
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Scimon Unless you're wanting bleeding edge stuff rakubrew is overkill (and you can end up with flaky code). 15:50
The packages are stable releases. 15:51
El_Che rjbs: in case you run windows or mac, there are compiled tar.gz as well in the rakudo homepage 15:52
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rjbs At the moment I have installed 2020.12 from prebuilt. 15:54
codesections if I have a variable $foo = "bar", there's not a shorthand syntax using $foo to get `bar => True`, is there? 15:57
Scimon So you want a pair from $foo? 15:59
codesections Yeah. The same pair I'd get with :bar
Scimon m: my $foo = "Bar";my $p = $foo.Set.pairs[0]; dd $p; # I mean.... this works. 16:00
camelia Pair $p = :Bar
codesections haha :D 16:01
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. $foo => True is fine 16:02
Scimon :)
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Scimon Yeah. I think that's it. 16:02
And shorter.
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codesections just checking that there wasn't a : shortcut I'd missed 16:03
Scimon m: my $foo = "Bar";my $p = :$foo;dd $p 16:04
camelia Pair $p = :foo("Bar")
Scimon Poot no. 16:05
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Scimon jmerelo: Watching your videa last night. Some great stuff in there with composition :) 16:13
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leont Still have to watch it, but it sounded like an interesting video 16:15
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PimDaniel Hi! 17:00
Not sure if i did it :
How do you convert a number into it's NumStr equivalent? 17:01
Lets say number 12345 must be "12345"?
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andinus PimDaniel: just to 12345.Str 17:07
m: say 12345.Str
PimDaniel andinus thank's. Thank's! but me problem is weird. 17:09
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PimDaniel In fact i have sometimes str and sometimes IntStr into my hash. 17:09
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PimDaniel I'm translating python code to Raku and it does not type numbers. 17:11
well, i'll try to see what i can do... thank's again.
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camelia 12345 17:16
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Scimon Right. That's me free and whatever. Though plan A is 5 days gaming and Netflix :) 17:37
jmerelo: I may be available for GSOC mentoring. I really don't know what my plans are yet but I'm hoping I will have time to devote to Raku more. 17:38
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summerisle does anyone know what issue tracker this (github.com/Raku/raku-mode/blob/mas...nt.el#L57) bug number might belong to? 23:43
guifa2 summerisle: probably old rt.cpan 23:47
summerisle where might I be able to read it (apologies - rt.cpan doesn't ring a bell) 23:48
rt.cpan.org/ ?
rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=15467 doesn't seem to match up with what I imagine this is referring to 23:49
guifa2 summerisle: that's the one, but I agree, it doesn't seem to line up 23:53
23:54 Geth left
guifa2 summerisle: maybe this one?lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu...00099.html 23:55
summerisle that's definitely it - raku-mode's SMIE rules were derived from css-mode 23:56
guifa2 's google fu is still strong
MasterDuke stackoverflow.com/questions/435848...iple-lines 23:57
ah, guifa2 found the actual source 23:58
guifa2 well, almost
I found a mailing list.