🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is getting closer to beta. If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel!
Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
00:03 reportable6 left 00:05 reportable6 joined 00:08 Kaiepi joined 00:10 Kaiepi left, Kaiepi joined 00:17 Kaiepi left, Kaiepi joined 00:26 Kaiepi left, Kaiepi joined 00:44 Kaiepi left, Kaipi joined 00:47 Kaipi left 00:48 Kaipi joined 00:51 frost joined 01:01 Kaipi left, Merfont joined 01:08 Merfont left, Merfont joined 01:16 andinus left 01:42 Merfont left 01:43 Kaiepi joined 01:59 Kaiepi left, Kaiepi joined 02:15 mahafyi left 02:20 evalable6 joined 02:33 Kaiepi left, Kaipi joined 02:36 Kaipi left 02:37 Kaiepi joined 03:09 Kaipi joined, Kaiepi left 03:16 Kaipi left
eof is the a design document on the overall language grammar? 03:29
s/the /there /
Petr i cant find , when needed ... 03:30
eof there are several items that are explained as if they are a uniform self-contained construct but are clearly composed of many discrete lexemes such as the arbitrary base literals, which are presented as `:N<N>` while `:N('N')` will also work. This makes it rather difficult to write language support for editors...
of course, there are things like Perl6/Grammar.nqp 03:31
guifa I believe you're looking for STD.pm6 03:43
(I'm sure a Raku-renamed version is somewhere, but this grammar has been held to pretty well)
eof i think i can work off this 03:51
i think i may have run across it at some point
regardless, I need to refresh my understanding of some Raku grammar behaviors... 03:52
03:54 clarjon1 left 04:14 mahafyi joined 04:30 gfldex left, tobs left, thowe_ left, peder left, Voldenet left, kybr left, JRaspass left, El_Che left, Ulti_ left, pejayes left, tobs joined, El_Che joined, gfldex joined, JRaspass joined, peder joined, kybr joined, thowe joined 04:31 Ulti joined, pejayes joined, Voldenet joined 05:27 Kaiepi joined 05:36 anser joined 06:02 reportable6 left 06:03 reportable6 joined 06:08 abraxxa-home joined, abraxxa joined 06:13 abraxxa left, abraxxa joined 06:17 anser left 06:19 anser joined 06:27 anser left 06:30 anser joined 06:41 anser left 06:49 pony left 06:59 pony joined 07:00 Sgeo left 07:07 Kaiepi left, Kaiepi joined 07:35 Manifest0 joined 07:53 dakkar joined 08:02 cognominal_ joined 08:03 cognominal_ joined, patterner_ left, ecocode__ left, patterner_ joined 08:04 ecocode__ joined 08:05 cog__ left
Xliff Hello! Precompilation has stopped working for me. 08:23
Meaning I am compiling compunits way too often.
I am unsing latest commit: v2021.09-277-gbc2cac136
lizmat Xliff: on master, spectest went back to Files=1349, Tests=117859, 346 wallclock secs 09:01
which is way better than Files=1349, Tests=117859, 616 wallclock a few commits back 09:02
09:05 linkable6 left, evalable6 left, linkable6 joined 09:07 evalable6 joined 09:12 RakuIRCLogger left, RakuIRCLogger joined 09:44 sena_kun left 09:51 mahafyi left 09:53 Kaipi joined, Kaiepi left 10:04 Kaipi left 10:08 Kaiepi joined
lizmat moritz_ : could you also let Camelia run on #raku-beginner ? 10:28
10:38 sena_kun joined 11:05 camelia left
moritz_ Oct 18 13:05:31 camelia bash[16842]: Server error occurred! Closing Link: camelia.detonation.org (This server is not accepting connections. Please reconnect to irc.libera.chat) 11:05
seems it doesn't work as well as I had hoped :-(
lizmat meh :-(
moritz_ there was an IPv6 address hard coded in the cameila config. Now trying with the FQDN instead. 11:32
11:34 camelia joined
moritz_ m: say 42 11:34
first one is always slooow, maybe related to IRC rate limiting or so
camelia 42
11:35 squashable6 left 11:41 djerius left 11:42 djerius joined
El_Che m: 42.say 11:44
camelia 42
El_Che everything is an object! :) 11:45
moritz_ so they all say, and then I ask them to show me the function invocation object :D 11:48
El_Che defined? :)
11:48 mahafyi joined
ugexe Xliff: previously CURFS would load a module using a comp-unit-id that could be incorrect because it didn't account for changes in the repository chain. if you are now suddenly precompiling way too often i would guess you are changing the repo chain (adding -I's or `use lib ...`s) 11:54
Xliff ugexe: Yes, I am using -I when I need to make changes to upstream modules. 11:56
Which is unfortunately a very common case when developing this app server for $dayJob
Howver now, symbols are not getting recognized as well.
ugexe you could technically work around it by always passing the same -I's 11:57
i.e. always try to use the same repo chain
Xliff 'use B::I::Symbol; Symbol.new' <= now generates an error.
ugexe: The invocation is in a script which is what precompiles and executes. It is always the same -I list in the same order.] 11:58
ugexe and the script doesnt use `use lib ...`?
Xliff No
ugexe yeah i dunno then
Xliff Yeah. Figured that. New behavior over the last week. 11:59
ugexe i kind of wonder if you were somehow relying on buggy behavior
Xliff Last time I could run the app server was about this time last week. Not it won't run.
Let's see... I guess I can drop it back to...ff6951f59 12:00
But there was a crash bug for that so... later 12:01
ugexe for instance previous `perl6 -I foo1/ -I foo2/ -e '{ use Foo:ver<1>; say Foo::my-version(); }; { use Foo:ver<2>; say Foo::my-version(); }'` would print 1 twice instead of 1 2
because it was reusing the wrong precomp file
so its certainly possible there is new legit precompilation going on for you 12:02
Xliff Maybe I'll try 308d6856 and see if that works.
ugexe of course with how elaborate some of the things you appear to work on are it probably shouldnt surprise me if there is some weird edge case
12:02 reportable6 left
ugexe you'd want 8d1f24f or earlier 12:03
12:04 linkable6 left
ugexe you'll probably have to look at the RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1 output and determine what you think shouldn't be happening 12:05
i can give more insight then
Xliff ugexe: That's tricky ... cos github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/4570 12:10
Does 8d1f24f contain the fix?
I'd probably have to build from MoarVM in stages. 12:12
ugexe no, i made 3 revisions of my fix. that commit is prior to the first one
i dont see how it would help but i'd suggest s{/lib}{} where possible
i.e. -I. instead of -Ilib 12:13
point at the META6
Xliff There is no META6 for this project, as yet.
If I need to create one, I will
[Coke] Xliff: looks like 4570 was fixed?
Xliff [Coke]: Yes. In MoarVM
Howeever HEAD rakudo is now breaking things further for the same project. 12:14
ugexe Xliff, just revert the three commits by me from the last few days 12:22
Xliff ugexe: That's what I will try next after this last bit of debugging. 12:23
ugexe im trying it locally but i only got a few minutes before i need to get to other work 12:24
hmm, lots of dependencies im having to install one-by-one. maybe a meta6.json would be useful in that regard 12:30
Xliff ugexe: Thanks.
ugexe: There is an install-prereqs file
It's incomplete, you will need to add Method::Also and CompUnit::Util to the list
ugexe ah my moar-blead doesn't have the segfault fix 12:31
im out of time for now but if you could post the RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1 for when it works correctly vs incorrectly, as well as pointing out at what point you think its wrong, it would speed up my investigation 12:33
Xliff ugexe: if I have the time to do so, I will. 12:34
Thanks for all of the support.
12:37 squashable6 joined 12:49 linkable6 joined 13:23 frost left
guifa o.O 13:46
So after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and flipping around different environments, etc. I think I finally tracked down the source of error (as well as fixed a ton of little calculation bugs that), and put simply, the bug may have nothing to do with new-disp, and somehow is caused by a difference in files generated by TZ's helper utility. Identical source files produced non-identical binary data files, the latter of which appear to b 13:54
lizmat yuck
problem with nulls in strings truncating ? 13:55
13:56 Sgeo joined
guifa I don't think so. The ZIC tool (converts a human readable format to binary) is pure C and when I run my updater script, it just downloads, compiles, and runs it, and I can't find any commits in their code that could result in different processing. 14:01
Hopefully I can find some time to build a bunch of different versions of ZIC and figure out where things went wrong — I can't imagine them having introduced such a radical bug and not have the mailing list blow up, so it's got to be something on me 14:03
14:05 reportable6 joined
guifa is mainly annoyed because he'd rather be having fun taking advantage of new-disp's fix on wraps lol 14:07
sena_kun guifa++ # investigation 14:30
lizmat and another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2021/10/18/2021-...ning-with/ 14:32
14:39 mjgardner_ is now known as mjgardner
xinming_ SmokeMachine: in lib/Red/ResultAssociative.pm6 the method keys should returns(Any) instead of returns(Int), Because when people do DISTINCT, people do it on strings too. 14:52
DISTINCT on text too
Geth doc: 2d3d50c23b | (Peter du Marchie van Voorthuysen)++ (committed by Juan Julián Merelo Guervós) | 2 files
Document pop, shift, push and append more concisely

In the "Defined as" sections, use meaningful parameter names and omit multis that are implemented only for performance reasons. This should more clearly convey the intent of these routines.
doc: 6686dfef35 | (Peter du Marchie van Voorthuysen)++ (committed by Juan Julián Merelo Guervós) | 2 files
Restore documentation of multis

All multi signatures found in the Rakudo implementation should be documented. Parameter names can be changed to fit the documentation.
doc: b2fa218803 | (Peter du Marchie van Voorthuysen)++ (committed by Juan Julián Merelo Guervós) | doc/Type/independent-routines.pod6
Restore a one-line example.

Not everybody agreed this example was redundant.
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/type/independent-routines
xinming_ Or maybe, We make it return Str, Which is more proper 14:58
[Coke] ^^ I disagree with the statement that "all multi signatures found... should be documented" - It's existence in Rakudo doesn't mean it's part of the spec. 15:19
I agree it's a decent first pass, however. 15:20
moritz_ if you have two signatures :($) and :($, $), you can also document it as :($, $?) 15:21
doesn't matter for the user that it's implemented as two multis
15:25 Xliff left
[Coke] Agreed. most tests in roast are checking to see if you get a certain behavior when you invoke a method, not that you get X methods with those signatures. 15:34
pandemic problems. new coworker (who is an ex coworker of mine as well!) wants to do a few hours in the local office... Guess who hasn't had to use his badge in 18 months and has no idea where it is today.. 15:37
SmokeMachine xinming_: yes, that makes sense, thanks! Would you mind to create a issue with that, please? 15:46
16:00 thundergnat joined
thundergnat lizmat: Thank you so much for all of you work publishing the RWN, it is very much appreciated. I don't have nearly as much time to commit to Raku as I'd like and the weekly helps me stay informed. Thanks!! 16:02
tellable6 2021-08-17T14:20:13Z #raku <lizmat> thundergnat: there is no .first on hypers yet
16:18 abraxxa left 16:47 xinming_ left 16:49 xinming_ joined 16:51 dakkar left
lizmat thundergnat: you're welcome 17:16
17:18 sena_kun left 17:48 gordonfish- is now known as gordonfish 18:02 melezhik joined
melezhik . 18:02
18:03 reportable6 left
Kaiepi how will rakuast interact with existing slangs? 18:24
lizmat probably badly: they will probably need to be fixed when running 6.e 18:25
and possibly for lower language versions as well
Kaiepi i'm wondering because i have a Qw-like Quote slang i've been sitting on for a while that can be written without QAST, but idk if it's releasable or not before rakuast despite that 18:28
lizmat Kaiepi: that's a good question, I have no answer 18:33
19:02 xinming_ left, xinming_ joined 19:34 Sgeo left 19:37 Sgeo joined 19:42 abraxxa-home left 19:43 abraxxa-home joined, abraxxa-home left 19:46 sena_kun joined 19:51 melezhik left 20:03 reportable6 joined
lizmat smiles just generally 20:17
gfldex lizmat: reading the weekly made me google "megamorph", what made me smile 20:19
lizmat :-) indeed 20:20
[Coke] STR that's a static ability in MTG
lizmat goes afk for the day and most of tomorrow 20:21
[Coke] hurls mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Morph#Megamorph which has nothing to do with moarvm megamorph :) 20:23
gfldex That's what I found. That card sounds like it can be really powerful or bit your real hard. Very fitting. 20:32
21:03 linkable6 left, evalable6 left 21:17 sena_kun left 21:22 sena_kun joined 21:37 squashable6 left 21:40 squashable6 joined 22:06 sena_kun left 22:18 sena_kun joined
guifa Kaiepi: basically I've put off all work on that type of stuff pending RakuAST 22:33
It just doesn't seem a good use of time to make it work one way, and then have to redo everything again, and deal with folks potentially using old versions, etc 22:34
23:05 evalable6 joined 23:06 linkable6 joined 23:14 colemanx joined
guifa I think I found what the issue is. Might need to do some recoding on my end up but they thankfully included a switch for older readers. Yay. 23:37