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Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
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[Coke] if I click on one of the fosdem 2022 videos, it goes into an infinite load loop on fosdem.org 01:33
if you have an alternate where you're trying to match something you know isn't right and then die?
like a common syntax error you want to be helpful on? 01:34
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guifa [Coke] that's what I was thinking, but it actually doesn't work unless it's the final chioce in a sequence 02:59
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guifa codesections GO TO BED 07:47
(we're both up way too late on reddit haha) 07:48
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El_Che isn't codesections not based on Europe? Pretty late if that's the case :) 08:07
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guifa yeah, we're both stateside 08:26
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El_Che ah, depending on the coast it may be still late :) 08:36
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immediate thanks lizmat that's very good to hear! 10:11
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whatnext Greetings all :) 11:43
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whatnext so look 11:43
about this sentence:
"There is a long term Rakudo 11:44
# based project to develop a new, comprehensive DBI architecture for
# Perl 6."
found in the DBIish notes
lizmat afaik that project is almost biologically stable :-(
whatnext which project is that then? 11:45
i mean - does it have a name and/or documentation? :) 11:47
lizmat moritz might still remember 11:57
whatnext hm "might still remember" doesn't sound too promising :') 12:08
ok I have another more specific question about DBIish
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moritz doesn't remember 12:09
whatnext DBIish::mysql in fact: I am seeing "mysql server has gone away" cropping up quite a bit, I am guessing idle connections are getting auto closed(?) - I see Pg has "keepalives" options but I don't see this for mysql. Just wondered if anyone knew an obvious solution for mysql? :) 12:13
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moritz ping the connection now and then? 12:14
lizmat whatnext: that is usually a server side setting
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whatnext hm the same db is being used across multiple applications without that problem 12:16
moritz: I guess this is a possibility - I just thought there might be a setting somewhere 12:17
thanks! :)
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leont I'm observing that a $vow.keep appears to hang, anyone have a clue what could cause that 14:36
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leont It has a then handler, it isn't being run 14:37
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japhb Doesn't ring a bell -- can you golf it to something gist-able? 14:39
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leont It seems it doesn't hang, it throws inside a Supply 14:41
Supply's done handler, and then the exception gets eaten and something else gets confused
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leont Apparently Vow.keep does not have a default argument, and that was the problem. 15:05
But because it was called in a done handler, the exception was swallowed and I was none the wiser
japhb Oof. Glad you found it though. 15:09
tbrowder tonyo: may i see your apache conf entries for the cro app? 15:15
japhb tbrowder: --> #cro ? 15:16
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tbrowder tonyo usually hangs out here, #cro is very quiet 15:24
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tbrowder until it isn’t!!! thnx for reminder 15:25
.ask tonyo may i pos see yr apache conf entrys for yr working cro app? 15:33
tellable6 tbrowder, I'll pass your message to tonyo
curiosa76 Hi, I am searching for a module that allows to evaluate C expressions at compile time and set them in constants, is there already available? 15:34
something like this:
my @*C-INCLUDES = '<fcntl.h>';
constant word_size = C::expression::expr "sizeof(int)";
constant O_CREAT = C::expression::expr "O_CREAT";
it would be useful for portability
maybe one can think also of the following shortcuts: 15:35
constant word_size = C::expression::size "int";
constant offset-flock-lstart = C::expression::offset "l_start", "flock"
if it's not already there, would people over here find a stuff like this useful? 15:37
what would be a good name for it, I think C::expression sucks a lot 15:41
should be findable by the keyword portability, or machine dependency
or cpu
of course it would require a C compiler installe
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japhb curiosa76: NativeCall has a fair amount of that functionality already, but with a very different syntax and world view. It knows the size of basic C types, it allows you to define a C struct and map it as a Raku object, and so forth. Parsing headers and automatically producing the matching Raku code is more in the domain of e.g. GPTrixie. 15:47
curiosa76 japhb thank you for the answer. I know nativecall 15:52
principally, the values of #defined constants can change from machine to machine
and for that the approach of NativeCall is to use conditionals 15:53
that I do not want to do
I wouldn't parse the headers, I would compile the expression with a C compiler and extract the values from the generated code 15:54
gptrixie is also faulty in my point of view since it tries to output nativecall code from C headers, that is clearly not generally possible 15:56
what I need is just for portability
japhb: how do you achieve this in NativeCall: constant O_CREAT = C::expression::expr "O_CREAT"; 16:01
japhb curiosa76: That's something for which I would have used e.g. GPTrixie, if I needed to do a lot of it, or hand-edited if I only needed a little. When I did the OpenGL bindings for Parrot, back in the day, I did it by parsing just the subset of C header syntax needed to extract the constants and function signatures. (I cheated, in other words.) 16:04
curiosa76 how do you achieve that with GPTrixie?
it seems totally out of scope for me
guifa has thought it would be a cool proof of concept to write a codeblock in C and compile at Raku compile-time and auto set up the NativeCall interface. But not sure if the slangs are quite yet up for it. 16:05
curiosa76 basically GPTrixie helps you writing that by hand
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curiosa76 guifa is aiming too high! 16:06
japhb what you wouldn't like in the approach I propose? 16:07
japhb curiosa76: Run GPTrixie at build time? It's pretty darn rare to build a Raku module distribution on a different OS/arch than you use it on. 16:08
Because if you're doing things at BEGIN time in a module (and thus at build & precomp time when installing that module), you might as well do them using a build script as a BEGIN block. 16:09
curiosa76 japhb running GPTrixie at build time and parsing the output is no different then compiling the code and parsing the assembler, what I am proposing is a nice interface to that that meld well with the activity to writing a module
japhb And not have to hand-write a whole bunch of code that exists to avoid ... hand-writing a bunch of code.
curiosa76 but GPTrixie does not help you with that
what guifa wants to achieve would really help 16:10
that would mean to implement a C compiler in raku
japhb curiosa76: I didn't say parse the output of GPTrixie. I was saying "just *use* the output of GPTrixie directly". Let it create a module, use it in your module, pull out the definitions that you cared about.
curiosa76 japhb did you ever looked at GPTrixie output?
japhb github.com/Skarsnik/gptrixie#example 16:11
curiosa76 there are things in C that are not even possible to express in nativecall
like most of the language a part a subset of statments
japhb you are really cherry picking
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tonyo tbrowder: you just trying to get the reverse proxy working? 16:28
tellable6 2022-02-16T15:33:09Z #raku <tbrowder> tonyo may i pos see yr apache conf entrys for yr working cro app?
tonyo if so, what port is your app listening on?
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curiosa let's say that one day there will be a C compiler implemented in Raku, there would be still things to adjust like the way C code interact and intersect with raku code. This can go very far such as when you expand a C macro and you end up with untyped raku code mixed with the code generated by the C macro. Let's say that one manage to cover 99% of 16:44
usage patterns maybe by carefully thinking about runtime support, there would be still incompatibilites due to the fact that C is a compiled language that is well adjusted to the OS binary format while Raku is not.
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curiosa Even if one really think about everything, you are still inferior by the reality that Raku needs C much more than C needs Raku 16:45
the power unbalance would still be overwhelming
even Grammars, that are a very strong point of raku, are matched by Bison to a level that is hard to tell which one is better 16:46
one would think that Raku is the child of the love hate relation between Larry and Bison 16:47
lizmat curiosa: and your point is? :-)
curiosa cucked by Java lovers
[Coke] ok, there goes any interest in this as a serious conversation for me. 16:48
curiosa lol
[Coke] wonders if the radar for use of that word works in a multi-language community or if the super red flags are US only. 16:49
curiosa I guess it depends on the cultural background
[Coke] to attempt to address the potentially serious ask of will raku ever be able to dynamically compile C... I don't think that would be core, but I could see something like P5's Inline::C, but even that doesn't sound like it would meet the ask here. 16:50
curiosa yep 16:51
I am coming to the realisation that the C language is not a very friendly langauge toward anything that is not C derived 16:52
[Coke] points to modules.raku.org/dist/Inline:cpan:FROGGS
last updated 2014.
curiosa when people invented C, they really decided that this is a "ring to rule them all" 16:53
guifa I'm pretty sure that's … not what was being thought of when C was made. 16:54
curiosa don't underestimate malice, guifa
guifa The history of C is pretty well documented. 16:55
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curiosa history is written by the winners 16:55
think about Objective C, their object system and runtime is much more friendly to other languages than C 16:58
still, it is C, because C is C
wouldn't be C if C wasn't C
leont C is C, because it's the successor of B (and BCPL) 16:59
guifa leont++
curiosa fine.. I am wondering if one could come up with a language that is based on C but takes all Raku innovations 17:01
something that could just extern 'C', but be raku
prog.vub.ac.be/~tjdhondt/ESL/BCPL_t...chards.pdf cool stuff 17:03
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curiosa be university professor, write tool to build other compilers, end up with everyone using that tool as the only compiler 17:07
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tbrowder .tell tonyo port 10000 for cro app 17:16
tellable6 tbrowder, I'll pass your message to tonyo
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gfldex weekly: news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=3036...2330363321 18:03
notable6 gfldex, Noted! (weekly)
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tonyo tbrowder: you should have a line like `ProxyPassReverse / localhost:10000/` in your virtualhost, that's the simplest reverse proxy with apache. you may need to enable the module with `a2enmod proxy` 18:08
tellable6 2022-02-16T17:16:52Z #raku <tbrowder> tonyo port 10000 for cro app
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tbrowder ok 19:37
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tbrowder .tell tonyo thanks! 19:48
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leont I'm observing a "Disconnecting because Disconnected" warning/error and I'm not sure where in my stack it's coming from 😕 (don't get me wrong, it's correct, but I want to suppress it) 21:50
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Anton Antonov Is there are a way to disable "Live Preview" in Comma / Commaide ? 22:22
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ugexe leont: maybe something like `CATCH { when CX::Warn { say .backtrace } }` 22:41
leont Doesn't seem to help 22:42
ugexe if its an error you'd need to use e.g. default { } instead 22:43
exception rather
leont CONTROL doesn't seem to do the trick either 22:44
ugexe is it an async thing? 22:53
if so there is QUIT { } 22:56
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leont It is an async thing, but there's no QUIT (at least not in my code, but it's using IO::Socket::Async) 23:52