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Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
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drakonis gist.github.com/alabamenhu/2fec7a8...4a2ae2f04d ah this is cool 01:17
a raku proposal for binary grammars
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stdInOut hello, I just installed rakudo via tarball and its .sh script, and it shows me that I can start using it via 'raku.exe' while I am on linux ??! 12:40
or perhaps "raqu"; "rather quiet" 12:48
MasterDuke do you prefer building yourself? you didn't want to use your distro's package? 12:50
stdInOut MasterDuke, honestly, I didnt scroll down to see that there was a distro package. but then I suppose they are older. 12:51
MasterDuke some are. but for most of those El_Che provides binaries
stdInOut but why '.exe' on linux? is it correct? :)
MasterDuke yeah, something's funny there. what showed that? 12:52
stdInOut when I ran the install script, the output showed that I could run that to start using raku
I didn't run it yet, though 12:53
MasterDuke fyi, nxadm.github.io/rakudo-pkg has the up-to-date distro packages i mentioned before
which tarball did you download?
stdInOut ah great, thank you, are they newer than the distro ones here; rakudo.org/downloads ?# 12:54
I downloaded rakudo-moar-2022.02-01-linux-x86_64-gcc.tar.gz
MasterDuke yeah. the ones listed there are the "official" distro packages, El_Che builds newer ones 12:55
patrickb stdInOut: Thanks for informing us! That's a mistake. Fix is on the way. 12:59
stdInOut ah, glad to have been of help, patrickb :) 13:00
MasterDuke, I will proceed with El_Che's downloads, thank you very much :)
MasterDuke np 13:01
patrickb stdInOut: There are quite a number of different deployment methods made available by different people. Most are kept up to date, amongst them are ElChes rakudo-pkg repositories and the precompiled tarballs.
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El_Che stdInOut: feel free to ping me if needed 13:04
patrickb MasterDuke: rakudo.org/downloads tries to provide an overview of the different options to deploy a rakudo. Amongst others the official distro packages as well as rakudo-pkg are mentioned and linked to. 13:05
stdInOut El_Che, sure, I will, thank you
patrickb MasterDuke: I think stdInOut tried the tarballs that can be downloaded on rakudo.org directly. Those are kept up to date, just as rakudo-pkg.
stdInOut patrickb, yes, I tried those
patrickb El_Che: Btw. I value your work on rakudo-pkg a lot. Thank you! 13:06
El_Che thx :)
I just need to keep an eye on new distro release so I can support them :)
before you know it, alpine has a major release, then fedora, then ... :) 13:07
patrickb stdInOut: The tarball you downloaded first was the latest version and was up to date. Feel free to use ElChes disto packages or the tarballs, whatever suits your need better.
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El_Che yes, tarballs work fine. They are essentially the same compile steps as rakudo-pkg 13:10
tar balls have the big advantage you can install it in your hone in a machine without root 13:11
pkgs have the advantage that they use repos so you can update easily with the rest of the system
patrickb El_Che: Out of curiosity, are rakudo-pkg executables compiled with the relocatability flag set? 13:12
El_Che yes 13:13
in the past only the tarballs, but for some times all packages
patrickb Is there a necessity? Don't the packages always install into the same path? 13:14
El_Che not needed no
patrickb (It doesn't hurt, just curious)
El_Che just an if less, can be easily changed one way or the other
patrickb ok
El_Che github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/blob/m...ild.sh#L11 13:15
you can tar your /opt/rakudo-pkg yourself and use it on an other machine on another path :P 13:16
stdInOut patrickb, yes, I just typed 'raku' and was in. I will place raku folder in /opt now. 13:25
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[Coke] ugh, how long has it been since I tried to run parallels on this 2014 mac mini... 14:23
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patrickb \quit 14:33
japhb Is there anyone doing *current* Docker container builds? The ones I'm finding are old, but maybe I've lost track of the current ownership. 14:39
MasterDuke i thought i saw jjmerelo updating some recently? 14:41
japhb Oh, hmmm. It does look like the rakudo-star image has been updated in the last month, but the tags still show 2021 dates 14:46
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Geth doc: 0360de1d0d | (David Warring)++ | doc/Language/pod.pod6
make Replacement formatting codes literal

I think this is what's intended
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/pod
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tonyo that binary grammar proposal is interesting but it seems like it's already doable 16:55
the maligned part, not as easily but just matching [multi]byte sequences 16:57
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drakonis there's an implementation for it and it seems fairly workable 17:04
its currently on hold due to rakuast, after that lands, it'll resume
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Geth doc: e349e63dca | Coke++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
remove some flowery prose
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/glossary
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Geth ecosystem: e6875fa9d7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | META.list
Freeze Linenoise while we're moving it to zef
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Nemokosch which repl helper module do you advise? what is the difference? 18:08
tonyo i use linenoise because it's smaller, easier to use with BSD. no real usability feedback for either though 18:44
Nemokosch I know that there is one that didn't work with backspace (or delete, I don't remember) 18:55
japhb tonyo: Have you tried Terminal::LineEditor? 19:02
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tonyo i haven't, actually just saw it was added to the repl message 19:44
Nemokosch where can I check the installed modules? 19:47
ugexe zef list --installed 19:48
Nemokosch Okay, so apparently I am using Terminal::LineEditor at the moment 19:53
and yes, it doesn't support delete 19:54
[Coke] ugexe++ btw for all the zef work. 19:58
ugexe m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.map(*.?installed).grep(*.so).map(*.Slip).map(*.meta<provides>.keys.Slip).join(",") 20:00
camelia Zef::Repository::LocalCache,Zef::Service::Shell::Test,Zef::Identity,Zef::Service::P6CReporter,Zef::Service::Shell::wget,Zef::Utils::URI,Zef::Client,Zef::Fetch,Zef::Distribution::DependencySpecification,Zef::Utils::FileSystem,Zef::Service::Shell::Build…
ugexe or as a raku 1-liner 20:01
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Nemokosch 😂 20:02
ugexe m: use Zef::CLI; @*ARGS = "install", "CSV::Parser" 20:03
camelia ===> Searching for: CSV::Parser
Failed to open file /home/camelia/.zef/store/MANIFEST.zef: Permission denied
in method slurp-manifest at /home/camelia/.raku/sources/84C3559D745406770E8D650CE8B07455F3789078 line 42
in method gather-dists at /…
ugexe thats no fun
Nemokosch 🤣 20:04
ugexe m: use Zef::CLI; @*ARGS = "install", "CSV::Parser", "--/cached"
camelia ===> Searching for: CSV::Parser, --/cached
Failed to open file /home/camelia/.zef/store/MANIFEST.zef: Permission denied
in method slurp-manifest at /home/camelia/.raku/sources/84C3559D745406770E8D650CE8B07455F3789078 line 42
in method gather…
Nemokosch I feel the "raku 1-liner" way gave more results than zef list --installed 20:06
built-in stuff?
ugexe zef list --installed shows the dist name only, not the module names in those dists
m: say $*REPO.repo-chain.map(*.?installed).grep(*.so).map(*.Slip).map(*.meta<name>).join(",")
camelia zef,CSV::Parser,CORE
ugexe oh hey it installed it afterall
Nemokosch XD 20:08
ugexe its a nice bonus of using main 20:09
raku -MZef::CLI -e '' install CSV::Parser
that works the same as bin/zef
japhb Nemokosch: I was thinking "How could it possibly not support delete?" and then I looked at the keyboard map and went "Ah crap, I forgot to map that key when I started supporting special keys". 20:12
Sigh, will fix.
Nemokosch Oh right, I found that ctrl+d can be used as a kind of delete 20:13
thank you anyway 20:14
japhb Happy to fix! In the future, do feel free to say something right off when you notice something like that. 20:15
Nemokosch now that we are at it... there is some button combination after which it stops taking input and eventually I found no other way than to kill the terminal as a whole 20:16
it revolves around alt and < > maybe? 20:18
one thing is sure: once I press alt+í (which is the bottom left character next to shift and y in my case), I'm stuck 20:20
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same for alt+. 20:22
maybe this is some terminal weirdness <:cameliathink:897316667653247057>
doesn't cause any trouble on xterm
japhb OK, the Delete is fixed in my local copy (I was right, it was just the missing entry in the default keymap, sigh)
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japhb The default keymap starts here: github.com/japhb/Terminal-LineEdit...kumod#L175 20:24
Alt-< and Alt-> are history movement keys
(Start and end of history respectively)
I don't have keymaps for the alt keys you're talking about, let me see if I can recreate 20:26
Hmmm, alt-. doesn't do it for me. Which terminal and keyboard layout are you using? 20:27
Nemokosch seems like this is a GNOME terminal and the layout... well, I think the dot part is the same. I tried standard Hungarian and programmer Polish (which is very much like a US QWERTY) 20:29
alt+. is apparently some "let's iterate over the words from the terminal history" command
japhb That's ... not something I ever implemented 20:31
Is '>' the same as 'shift-.' for you?
Nemokosch The Polish layout is the same in this regard 20:35
I wonder what gets passed to poor raku repl in these cases
what can that alt+. be when it arrives
in xterm, it's some glitchy character and it just shows up
nothing special
apparently xterm is good for something, after all
japhb *snrk*
FWIW, I'm using Gnome Terminal as well
Nemokosch: ISTR I implemented a raw terminal keycode program for Terminal::Print ... 20:38
Yeah, here it is: github.com/ab5tract/Terminal-Print...d-input.p6
(Technically that's the version that tries to figure out what key can be decoded from an escape sequence; there's a raw-input.p6 as well, but then you have to be able to grok the raw sequences.) 20:39
Since it appears that this other problem may take some time to figure out, I've released 0.0.11 with just the Delete fix. It will take a few minutes to appear in the indexes. 20:44
OK, zef sees it now
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Nemokosch first time I used zef upgrade... it was about time I suppose 20:56
oh yeah, nice, it works now 🙂
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japhb When I told a friend of mine that I'd forgotten to add Delete to the default keymap, they went "And you never noticed? Way to humblebrag!" and realized they thought I was claiming to have never needed to correct my inputs. NOT! 21:06
drakonis does raku have anything along the lines of data manipulation libraries yet? 21:20
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japhb drakonis: Manipulating what particular kind of data? That's a pretty broad range of possibilities, and we have rather uneven coverage. 21:27
drakonis ah, matrices and vectors i'd say 21:28
not unlike the kinds of libraries you'd find in the usual languages for this sort of task 21:29
dataframes and such
japhb Have you searched on raku.land? raku.land/?q=linear and raku.land/?q=vector and raku.land/?q=matrix and raku.land/?q=matrices all gave results (overlapping of course) 21:44
Though of course those may not be what you're looking for.
e.g. if you're actually looking for a port of pytorch or so.
drakonis ah, i haven't yet. 21:48
also i meant numeric processing libraries 22:03
if they're not available, they can always be written.
El_Che japhb: take a small base image and add this github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#os-repositories: voila, small image. Usable in docker was one of the first usecases of rakudo-pkg :) 22:12
japhb: I don't believe in prebuilt images with too much in it, so I prefer to add what I exactly meed 22:13
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japhb El_Che: Sure, I understand. I had just gotten feedback from someone frustrated that Docker images that were simultaneously *current* and *official* weren't obvious from any of the download spots they looked (including rakudo.org and Docker Hub), which gave an impression of poor Docker support. I figured the most likely case is that people *were* making Docker images, but we weren't advertising that well. 22:28
rakudo-star appears official but out of date, and others appeared either unofficial or out of date or both. 22:29
El_Che japhb: there is certainly a usecase for rakudo-star, but docker isn't one. It's pretty much the antithesis of the docker mindset (minimalistic) 22:30
japhb El_Che: Oh, no disagreement. I just meant that that's the only one on Docker Hub that shows with the official marker. 22:31
El_Che japhb: it would be pretty trivial to create rakudo-pkg images as the base images of each OS/Distro is used to build the package in the same place. I just don't know if there is a public for it
I have toyed with the idea certainly
japhb It sounds like you've got at least one "public" request for it. :-) 22:32
El_Che hehe
docker hub though is a dead end 22:33
with the limits they added
japhb And I personally have wanted base images of "alpine + rakudo + zef" and "ubuntu + rakudo + zef" in order to simplify some of my stuff -- and make it easier to toss a script to my friends who don't necessarily have rakudo on all their machines.
Sorry, haven't been keeping up with that news. What limits?
El_Che yeah, I am pretty please with the alpine repos that make that possible. I was only able to create rakudo-pkg repos when I moved to cloudsmith 22:34
For anonymous users, the rate limit is set to 100 pulls per 6 hours per IP address.
For authenticated users, it is 200 pulls per 6 hour period. There are no limits for users with a paid Docker subscription.
add it to a CI system and you'll be fast out of luck 22:35
github has now docker repos and maybe cloudsmith. The problem is that not all the users know how to get images not on docker hub 22:36
japhb There was some verbiage in there about open source projects having an exemption. I'd sorta assumed we'd need to do that like we do with e.g. GitHub.
El_Che (before I do that, I need to find the time to finish the arm64 images :/ ) 22:41
pkgs I mean
japhb For which OS? 22:42
El_Che the same as rakudo-pkg supports 22:43
except centos 7 that does not have a arm64 upstream image (they started supporting it at 8) 22:44
so a 15-20 distribution+release matrix depending on what's supported at the moment 22:45
japhb Ah 23:12
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