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🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). Log available at irclogs.raku.org/raku/live.html . If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel! Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022. |
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| SmokeMachine | I'd like to make it a compile-time thing... to break if the value-class is mutating it's attributes and /or it have mutable attributes... I think the first part may be possible with RakuAST... but the 2nd part not even with that, I think... An attribute can be of type Any and be populated with a List or an Array, for example... we only know when an object is instanciated, right? | 00:40 | |
| Another thing is that I'm using `Proxy`s to be sure the attribute is not changed... That might be slow, right? but I can't find an different was for doing that... any suggestion? | 00:41 | ||
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| SmokeMachine | even modifying `set_value()` would not help (as I learned on Red, and tried again now) | 00:45 | |
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| SmokeMachine | m: class Bla { has $.a; method b { $!a = 42 } }; (my $attr = Bla.^attributes.head) does role :: { method set_value(|) { say "here" } }; my $bla = Bla.new; say "1st try: "; $bla.b; say "2nd try: "; $attr.set_value: $bla, 1 | 00:47 | |
| camelia | 1st try: 2nd try: here |
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| SmokeMachine | is there a way to find out from the class type if its objects will be value objects? | 02:26 | |
| m: for Array, List, Hash, Map { say .^name; say .WHICH.^name; say .new.WHICH.^name } | 02:28 | ||
| camelia | Array ValueObjAt ObjAt List ValueObjAt ObjAt Hash ValueObjAt ObjAt Map ValueObjAt ObjAt |
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| SmokeMachine | m: for Array, List, Hash, Map, Bag, BagHash, Set, SetHash { say .^name; say .WHICH.^name; say .new.WHICH.^name } | 02:29 | |
| camelia | Array ValueObjAt ObjAt List ValueObjAt ObjAt Hash ValueObjAt ObjAt Map ValueObjAt ObjAt Bag ValueObjAt ValueObjAt BagHash ValueObjAt ObjAt Set ValueObjAt ValueObjAt SetHash ValueObjAt ObjAt |
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| Voldenet | SmokeMachine: every class that returns value objects has `WHICH(–> ValueObjAt:D)` as one of multi dispatch candidates | 06:32 | |
| m: sub is-valueobj($t) { $t.^methods.grep({.name ~~ "WHICH"}).flatmap(*.candidates).map(*.signature).grep({ .params[0].type eqv $t && .returns eqv ValueObjAt:D }).so }; for Array, List, Hash, Map, Bag, BagHash, Set, SetHash { say [.^name, is-valueobj($_), .WHICH.^name, .new.WHICH.^name] } | 06:34 | ||
| camelia | [Array False ValueObjAt ObjAt] [List False ValueObjAt ObjAt] [Hash False ValueObjAt ObjAt] [Map False ValueObjAt ObjAt] [Bag True ValueObjAt ValueObjAt] [BagHash False ValueObjAt ObjAt] [Set True ValueObjAt ValueObjAt] [SetHash False Val… |
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| Voldenet | hm, `.params[0].type eqv $t` doesn't consider inheritance | 06:40 | |
| I'm suspecting it's possible to create a Signature object to match against WHICH directly | 06:48 | ||
| `$t.^can("WHICH") ~~ :($t –> ValueObjAt:D)` or something similar | 06:49 | ||
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| El_Che | releasable6: status | 08:18 | |
| tellable6 | 2024-06-27T19:22:44Z #raku-dev <jdv> El_Che 2024.06 release happened | ||
| releasable6 | El_Che, Next release in ≈27 days and ≈10 hours. There are no known blockers. Changelog for this release was not started yet | ||
| El_Che, Details: gist.github.com/b82e54a21c385aabb8...b964ed7da4 | |||
| El_Che | ok | 08:19 | |
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| librasteve | SmokeMachine: I like the concept of ValueClass … took a look at the strawman … is the idea that I go class MyClass Is ValueClass {…}? | 10:45 | |
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| I guess you saw the grant proposal from codesections a while back … that was more a low level how to apply TRIEs or similar to making objects immutable at the low level iirc | 10:47 | ||
| also, I would say that for serious OO we should be relaxed about always wanting $! attributes and just making consumers go obj.attr: 42 rather than obj.attr=42 for setter methods | 10:49 | ||
| imo that’s the best use of the : | 10:50 | ||
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| El_Che | still rerunning for failing t/09-moar/00-misc.t | 11:44 | |
| that's the new biggest flipper test | |||
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| El_Che | cloudsmith push deb nxadm-pkgs/rakudo-pkg/ubuntu/oracular rakudo-pkg-Ubuntudevel_2024.06-01_amd64.deb | 12:03 | |
| Checking deb package upload parameters ... ERROR | |||
| Failed to validate upload parameters! (status: 422 - Unprocessable Entity) | |||
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| El_Che | like with every release, I need to tell cloudsmith to add a repo | 12:03 | |
| I am their canary | |||
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| lizmat | El_Che: re t/09-moar/00-misc.t I've run that in a loop for 40 minutes on an Intel box, and didn't crash once :-( | 12:58 | |
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| El_Che | the github containers have less resources, that may be a factor | 13:31 | |
| packages uploaded to repos | 13:36 | ||
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| SmokeMachine | Voldenet: thanks! I’ll see if I can improve the module with that… but now I’m thinking that I’ll need to wait to test it on instantiation any way… | 15:11 | |
| librasteve: no, at least currently you would replace the keyboard class with the keyboard value-class | 15:13 | ||
| I was searching a way to not need to use Proxy on that for performance reasons… but couldn’t find a way… it just uses nqp::getattr(), right? If I override it… it will impact everything, right (and I’m not even sure if that’s possible…) | 15:16 | ||
| Does anyone have any idea on how I could replace Proxy on ValueClass with something to get a better performance? | 15:17 | ||
| (I haven’t test the performance… I just believe Proxy is slow… I could be wrong) | 15:18 | ||
| lizmat looks | 15:19 | ||
| m: my $a := 42; $a = 666 | 15:23 | ||
| camelia | Cannot assign to an immutable value in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| lizmat | isn't that error message good enough for you? | ||
| because that appears to be the only reason for using a Proxy, right? | 15:24 | ||
| SmokeMachine | Yes, but I need that on attributes… | ||
| lizmat: I just saw your ValueType (raku.land/zef:lizmat/ValueType)… | 15:25 | ||
| lizmat | m: class A { has $.b; method TWEAK() { $!b := 42 } }; A.new.b = 666 | ||
| camelia | Cannot modify an immutable Int (42) in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| SmokeMachine | Oh!!! That’s a great one!! | 15:26 | |
| I’ll try that! Do you do that on ValueType? | 15:27 | ||
| If you do… I’ll probably delete mine… | |||
| It seem you only add a WHICH… | 15:28 | ||
| lizmat | yeah, if you as an author decide to make make the attributes settable, then it cannot be a ValueType by definitionn | 15:29 | |
| so I feel it's a case of DIHWIDT | 15:30 | ||
| I mean, even in your code it would be possible to circumvent the test | |||
| SmokeMachine | Yes… it will be always possible, right? But you would need to try harder… | 15:31 | |
| lizmat | I guess it could also check the accessor methods | ||
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| SmokeMachine | If it is rw?! I do it on attributes and on the whole class | 15:32 | |
| lizmat | m: class A { has $.a }; dd A.^find_method("a").signature | 15:33 | |
| camelia | :(A:D $:: *%_) | ||
| lizmat | m: class A { has $.a is rw }; dd A.^find_method("a").signature | ||
| camelia | :(A:D $:: *%_) | ||
| lizmat | sadly, no difference in signature | ||
| SmokeMachine | github.com/FCO/ValueClass/blob/mai...rakumod#L5 | 15:34 | |
| I changed the attribute’s compose() to die if it is rw | 15:35 | ||
| And the classes set_rw() to always die | |||
| (Metaclass’ I mean) | |||
| lizmat | yeah, I saw | 15:37 | |
| SmokeMachine | Make sense? | 15:38 | |
| I think I’ll do something your ValueType do, I’ll also cache the WHICH return… | |||
| lizmat | yeah... but lemme see if it's easily added to ValueType | ||
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| SmokeMachine | If you add that (and the binds for each attribute) to your ValueType, I’ll probably make my ValueClass become just a keyword that applies your ValueType… | 15:40 | |
| lizmat | I was thinking of adding: | 15:49 | |
| if @attributes.grep(*.rw) -> @mutables { | |||
| die "These attributes are mutable: " | |||
| ~ @mutables.map(*.name).join(', '); | |||
| } | |||
| but I'm not sure it should go beyond that, really | 15:52 | ||
| SmokeMachine | I think that’s ok… I can continue with CalueClass than… :) | 15:56 | |
| And about the binding… I think I’ll need to continue with the proxies with Positionals and Associatives, right? glot.io/snippets/gxjkszeuxv | 15:57 | ||
| lizmat | why not: "method a { $!a := 42 }" ? | 15:58 | |
| also: you can specify on attributes is built(:bind) | 15:59 | ||
| SmokeMachine | Sorry, I didn’t get it… | ||
| lizmat | m: class A { has $.a is built(:bind) } | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| lizmat | m: class A { has $.a is built(:bind) = 30 } | 16:00 | |
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| lizmat | then you don't need the TWEAK | ||
| SmokeMachine | I tested that and it was still not breaking and changeable (I may have done something wrong, of course) | ||
| lizmat | m: class A { has $.a is built(:bind) = 30 }; A.new.a = 42 | ||
| camelia | Cannot modify an immutable Int (30) in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| SmokeMachine | Oh! :bind?! I haven’t used that! | ||
| lizmat | I guess you could add that to your metaclass., executing that trait_mod on it | 16:02 | |
| SmokeMachine | Yes… that’s my plan now… | 16:03 | |
| There is a problem… | |||
| m: class C { has $.a is built(:bind) }; C.new.a = 13 | 16:05 | ||
| camelia | Cannot modify an immutable 'Any' type object in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| lizmat | isn't that what you want? | ||
| SmokeMachine | m: class C { has $.a is built(:bind); method a { $!a = 13 } }; C.new.a | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| lizmat | I mean value types are supposed to be immutable | 16:06 | |
| SmokeMachine | If there is no value it allows editin it from inside the class… | ||
| lizmat | well, *that* I would consider a case of DIHWIDT | ||
| SmokeMachine | m: class C { has $.a is built(:bind) = Any; method a { $!a = 13 } }; C.new.a | 16:07 | |
| camelia | assign requires a concrete object (got a Any type object instead) in method a at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| SmokeMachine | Maybe I’ll need to always set something… | ||
| lizmat | still I'm not clear of what you want *exactly* :-) | 16:08 | |
| SmokeMachine | I don’t want to give to the developer the chance to forget that shouldn’t be mutated… | ||
| lizmat | but what if you would allow * to be specified for a value, but want to use Inf inside? | 16:09 | |
| then being able to do: $!a := Inf if $!a ~~ Whatever inside TWEAK would be very helpful | |||
| SmokeMachine | If the developer choose to use value-class instead of class… they shouldn’t be “allowed” to mutate… | ||
| Using Proxy I could just make my TWEAK run after the custom one and that would work… | 16:11 | ||
| It would be exame “mutable until TWEAK and immutable after TWEAK” | 16:12 | ||
| lizmat | feels like a heck of a lot of complexity to guard against stupid developers :-) | ||
| SmokeMachine | I don’t know the other developers… but I am stupid enough to need that… | 16:13 | |
| I can also do the binding on TWEAK… | 16:14 | ||
| lizmat | then by all means! :-) | ||
| going to have to go afk | |||
| laters& | |||
| SmokeMachine | Thanks for your help! | ||
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| SmokeMachine | do we have something like Tuple (raku.land/zef:lizmat/Tuple) for Associative? My ValueClass is going to use Tuple by default when a Positional attribute is defined... I'd like to have something like that for Associative... | 19:04 | |
| I think I found it... ValueMap (raku.land/zef:lizmat/ValueMap) | 19:05 | ||
| lizmat | heh :) | 19:06 | |
| SmokeMachine | usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/.../image.png | 19:07 | |
| lizmat | :-) | 19:15 | |
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| SmokeMachine | that makes sense, right? If I'm creating a class that can't have non value attributes, it makes sense to change the default class for @ and % attributes from non-values to values ones, right? | 19:25 | |
| lizmat | yes, it does :-) | 19:27 | |
| SmokeMachine | :) | 19:30 | |
| lizmat: is this expected? I mean is that () around the values correct? usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/.../image.png | 19:41 | ||
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| lizmat | yes, otherwise Map.new will interprete the pairs as named args | 19:42 | |
| SmokeMachine | :+1 | ||
| 👍 | |||
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| SmokeMachine | lizmat: should an empty Tuple be false? | 20:20 | |
| m: say ?[] | |||
| camelia | False | ||
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| librasteve | m: ().so.say | 21:09 | |
| evalable6 | Cannot test 7190eae29b8e7a1be56789a221ba14ded934c52a (Broken archive) | ||
| linkable6 | (2024-06-27) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7190eae29b Merge pull request #5600 from rakudo/release-2024.06 | ||
| Raku eval | False | ||
| librasteve | just reflecting that empty List is False | 21:10 | |
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| SmokeMachine | www.irccloud.com/pastebin/nwYc14ej/ | 21:21 | |
| github.com/lizmat/ValueMap/issues/1 | |||
| github.com/lizmat/Tuple/issues/4 | |||
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| [Coke] | What's the expectation YOU have on those tickets? Are they false and you don't know why? True and you expect false? | 22:09 | |
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| lizmat | they should be False: Tuple fixed now, ValueMap I'll do tomorrow | 22:38 | |
| sleep& | |||
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| SmokeMachine | [Coke]: I would expect them to be false if empty… | 23:31 | |
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| SmokeMachine | Hi guifa ! Did you see that? github.com/FCO/ValueClass | 23:34 | |
| guifa | SmokeMachine++ | 23:35 | |
| SmokeMachine | guifa: it has many improvements from that first version | ||
| guifa | Perfect example by the way of why goign to conferences is so awesome | ||
| an idea was sparked during hallway track | |||
| and it got implemented within a day and a half | |||
| SmokeMachine | Totally agree | ||
| antononcube | @SmokeMachine and @guifa -- I assumed you still in Vegas gambling away the good karma you got from presenting TPRC. | 23:36 | |
| guifa | I left last night unfortunately $day-job wrecked my plans to be there the whole week | ||
| antononcube | Not making new Raku values... | ||
| Agh -- I see. | |||
| SmokeMachine | I’m just lm just going to my last walk (my wife wants me to buy some stuff for here) and I’m going back to UK tomorrow | 23:38 | |
| guifa | I'm hoping to make the london one | 23:39 | |
| SmokeMachine | If you do, I’ll see you there | ||
| _grenzo | The London one is only 1 day...correct? | ||
| antononcube | Las Vegas, London -- to far me. | ||
| guifa | Yeah just a single day for London | 23:40 | |
| SmokeMachine | Yes, 1 day | ||
| antononcube | Ah, yeah -- and just for one day! | ||
| SmokeMachine | Is ValueClass the first Raku module changing the default types for @ and % attributes inside a class? | 23:42 | |
| antononcube | Well, I am currently making graphs (with Raku) -- so, a certain Raku conference would have been good place to discuss the corresponding packages. | 23:43 | |
| cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/633...3e6ab& | |||
| Damn, the Petersen graph got "disfigured" again! | 23:44 | ||
