🦋 Welcome to Raku! raku.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/raku
Set by ChanServ on 14 October 2019.
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tbrowder hence the "ports?" 00:00
cfa yeah 00:03
originally darwin ports, iirc
tbrowder nevermind, i found the macports page, thnx
cfa heh, sure
also, macports install to /opt/local (by default) so again, sandboxed
though i believe you can sandbox brew too
tbrowder when you say sandbox you mean clean separation from normal sys files, where /opt replaced replaced the old /usr/local in the new file system standards i assume 00:06
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cfa right 00:07
i.e., macports isn't clobbering anything in 'typical' system paths 00:08
i believe brew installs to its own tree then symlinks stuff into place but i could be wrong (and i'm certainly out of date on brew knowledge)
tbrowder i just recently changed from the old irix standard of /usr/local/people to /home after several decades!
cfa :)
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tbrowder but i have been using /opt for a good while for some 3rd party stuff like google plus some commercial stuff 00:11
i see the houston perl/raku speaker/ topic list is starting to be shown. i see jmerelo and guifa and bruce gray among the raku speakers 00:17
i see no date/time matrix yet but i hope i can see most of the raku sessions 00:19
SmokeMachine m: sub bla(:a[$, *@]) { say "here"}; bla :a[1,2,3]
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub bla(:7⏏5a[$, *@]) { say "here"}; bla :a[1,2,3]
SmokeMachine should this work? ^^ 00:20
m: sub bla(:a([$, *@])) { say "here"}; bla :a[1,2,3]
camelia here
jnthn No, I don't think so 00:22
SmokeMachine jnthn: why not? 00:23
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SmokeMachine jnthn: shouldn't named parameters/subsignatures accept the same syntax as pairs? 00:28
jnthn No, because that'd imply :a($foo) was a sub-signature, but it's not, it's a parameter rename 00:30
SmokeMachine jnthn: wouldn't a rename be `:a(:$foo)` or `:a(:b($foo))`? 00:33
jnthn Only if you want to expose both names 00:34
And even that would be ambiguous
So an unpack of a named always needs two levels of parens to know that's what we mean 00:35
And I don't think the inconsistency of allowing :a[...] as a shortcut for :a([...]) is really worth it 00:36
SmokeMachine make sense... (but I would prefere to use that way... :P ) 00:37
jnthn :) 00:38
Sleep time o/
SmokeMachine have a good night 00:40
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guifa tbrowder: where are you seeing the list? 03:03
tbrowder i got an email that led me to a login... 03:04
my friend bill did too
but you are a speaker and so things nay be different for you 03:05
this is all new to me
much different than when i last attended two years ago 03:06
guifa Ah, I haven’t actually registered with the conference yet. Maybe I should do that :-) 03:07
tbrowder yes!
bill and i are registered
guifa My mind has been all over the place the past few weeks — I’m defending the dissertation in a month 03:08
guifa used Raku code all over the dissertation though :-)
tbrowder whoa, good luck! 03:09
is it beind videoed?
i'll bet that's almost required these days 03:11
guifa It’s being videoed because I have two committee members that can’t attend in person due to a last minute date change (yay jury duty ha). But I don’t think the video will be released 03:12
The dissertation itself will though, and I’ll be releasing a module or two based on it 03:13
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tbrowder i look forward to seeing it 03:13
g'night all 03:14
guifa It’s mostly boring literature stuff
night!
tbrowder: tpcih.sched.com/ I found 03:27
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SmokeMachine now the optional condition is also working: gist.github.com/FCO/b9e950e2180839...98caa8a796 04:23
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Geth doc: e6b1e287ce | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/pod.pod6
Some improvements while preparing for #2632
 07:05
doc: 9c533237b0 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/pod.pod6
Adds :numbered (#) configuration option #2632
linkable6 Link: docs.raku.org/language/pod
DOC#2632 [open]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/2632 [Hacktoberfest][RFE][big][docs][good first issue][help wanted][new][⚠ Top Priority ⚠] Checklist for 6.d
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cpan-raku New module released to CPAN! Term::Choose::Util (1.3.2) by 03KUERBIS 07:12
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Altreus Has anyone written a vim rule to collapse raku pod? I guess it's called ROD now? 10:58
wait, the P wasn't Perl, never mind
Anyway, I have a simple folding rule to collapse P5 pod but I can't figure one out to collapse raku pod 10:59
cos I didn't figure that one out in the first place :)
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Ulti yeah I kind of wish there was a more universal formatted docs standard languages implemented preferably more markdown like, the nice thing about POD and Sphinx and friends is they have a model of the API of a library... you could just stub in a new language with documentation from existing other languages if it was all the same 15:41
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Grinnz Altreus: i've said before but I think it's perfectly reasonable to keep calling it Pod6, it's very much like a different version of POD - on the other hand, of late it seems like Rakudoc is a better name 16:03
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Altreus Yeah I forgot the P was Plain 16:04
no harm in considering it version 6 of POD
Nevertheless, I still need vim to make it go away :)
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jmerelo The Perl Foundation has not been accepted this year in Google Summer of Code 17:03
Just got the message.
Altreus Blame the president! 17:06
jmerelo feeling sad anyway 17:08
We can still try Outreachy
8 days to go; submit your projects and ideas here github.com/perl-foundation-outreac...2020-ideas
lizmat
.oO( maybe a Raku Foundation would have gotten it )
 17:17
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jmerelo lizmat: maybe :-) But we have no feedback whatsoever. 17:21
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SmokeMachine Voldenet: sorry to interrupt, but I have a question: if we have this rule: `event bla { match { ble(#1) ble(a == #1.a) } }` and we receive 3 events: `{ :type<ble>, :42a }`, `{ :type<ble>, :42a }`, `{ :type<ble>, :42a }`. Should we emit the `bla` event once, twice or 3 times? It could match the 1st and the 2nd, the 1st and the 3rd and/or the 2nd and the 3rd... 18:17
Anyone??? ^^
I mean: should I erase a query after it’s matched? 18:19
Probably we should not erase the first layer queries... or the patterns would be matched only once... 18:20
But what about the higher layers?
Voldenet SmokeMachine: imho twice 18:21
SmokeMachine 1&&2 and 1&&3 or 1&&2 and 2&&3? 18:22
Voldenet 1&&2 and 2&&3
at least that's what I would expect
SmokeMachine So, after Mach the 2 we erase this 2nd layer? 18:23
Voldenet I think that every full instance of the rule should match once
so ble(#1) matches [1,2] and ble(a == #1.a) matches [2,3] 18:24
SmokeMachine Voldenet: and what would mean `bla()*` without a time? Would it never emit?
Voldenet Huh, that's a tricky question 18:25
How about `match-once` `every-match` and `match`
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Voldenet maybe match-all instead of every-match 18:26
SmokeMachine What about ble(#1) matching the 1st and bla(a==#1.a) matching the 3rd?
Voldenet match-once - emit the event exactly once the match is found, match-all when any matching combination of events occurs, match only firing when rule is satisfied per chain 18:27
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Voldenet I don't think firing 3 events is very practical here 18:28
SmokeMachine Voldenet: you mean something like this? docs.raku.org/language/regexes#Adverbs
Voldenet hm, either that, or just different identifiers for different type of matches 18:29
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SmokeMachine I mean: :g, :ex, :ov 18:31
Voldenet it would work 18:32
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SmokeMachine Voldenet: have you seen that [] and & are working? 18:36
Voldenet yeah, though I'm not yet sure what is it useful for
El_Che lizmat: not to fun in raku activities under the Perl umbrella
Voldenet I guess I'd have to use it for something :D
El_Che it kinds od defeats the purpose, PR wise
lizmat El_Che: agree, that's why I suggested having a Raku Foundation under the YAS umbrella 18:38
but that was considered not needed :-(
El_Che it makes sense to me
SmokeMachine [] os just a way to group some stuff, and, `a() & b()` would match `a, b` as well `b, a` 18:39
Voldenet SmokeMachine: the problem with "every match emitted" probably would be that it'd fire `f(n) = n - 1 + f(n - 1)` events per match, that's not a data set I'd like to have emitted :P
SmokeMachine Voldenet: so, `[a() & b()] c()` would match a, b, c and b, a, c... 18:40
El_Che it does not mean we don't love our Perl breathen. People can be part of both foundations, communities, etc
SmokeMachine Voldenet: no, it would only emit when matched with the whole chain... that rule I’ve wrote is a very loose wrote... 18:43
m: say “aaaaaaa” ~~ /:ex a .* a/ 18:44
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unrecognized regex modifier :ex
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say “aaaaaaa” ~~ /:7⏏5ex a .* a/
expecting any of:
term
SmokeMachine m: say “aaaaaaa” ~~ m:ex/a .* a/ 18:45
camelia (｢aaaaaaa｣ ｢aaaaaa｣ ｢aaaaa｣ ｢aaaa｣ ｢aaa｣ ｢aa｣ ｢aaaaaa｣ ｢aaaaa｣ ｢aaaa｣ ｢aaa｣ ｢aa｣ ｢aaaaa｣ ｢aaaa｣ ｢aaa｣ ｢aa｣ ｢aaaa｣ ｢aaa｣ ｢aa｣ ｢aaa｣ ｢aa｣ ｢aa｣)
SmokeMachine Something like this ^^
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Voldenet Yeah, so it would match that much if exhaustive matching is requested 18:53
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Geth doc: e0eb76d188 | Coke++ | util/aspell-wrapper.t
No longer needed

Related to #2832		 18:54
linkable6 DOC#2832 [closed]: github.com/Raku/doc/issues/2832 [bug][external][xt] xt/aspell.t crashes
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Voldenet SmokeMachine: but if I wanted to implement port knocking with this (because why not :P), I'd need only specific by-ip sequence to trigger it 18:59
(so randomly using nmap wouldn't open all ports, but `await knock(42); await knock(394); await knock(999);`) 19:01
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Voldenet SmokeMachine: it may be useful to be able to somehow describe grouping before filtering it 19:07
SmokeMachine Voldenet: I think I don’t get it... 19:09
guifa jmerelo: don’t worry, I’ll still do my project regardless. 19:14
jmerelo guifa: great
SmokeMachine Voldenet: how is this port knocking implemented? 19:16
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guifa jmerelo: also for another project, it looks like I’m about to have to create a non-text-based pattern matching thing hooray ha 19:18
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Voldenet SmokeMachine: i've got 6 ports, if I need firewall access to all of them, I need to connect via tcp to them in the right order 19:19
s/all of them/all ports on the target machine/
otherwise it just doesn't do anything
SmokeMachine Voldenet: sorry, I was seeing port knocking but reading port scanning... I’m sorry... now I got it... 19:22
`access(#1, port == 42), access(ip == #1.ip, port == 394), access(ip == #1.ip, port == 999)` 19:28
Voldenet …but wouldn't it work if someone knocked 42 999 394 999? 19:29
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Voldenet it'd just decide that 999 is not being matched 19:29
SmokeMachine no...
`access(#1, port == 42) & access(ip == #1.ip, port == 394) & access(ip == #1.ip, port == 999)` this would accept any order... 19:30
jmerelo guifa: congrats!
Voldenet oh, good then, exactly what i'd expect
lizmat SmokeMachine: is | still XOR ? that feels... wrong and inconsistent with Raku 19:31
SmokeMachine (Without the commas between the event marchers...)
Grinnz Voldenet: by any chance is your name Tom Navelo Riddle? 19:32
SmokeMachine lizmat: I haven’t thought about | yet...
Voldenet Grinnz: No
Grinnz: It is, but it's not by chance 19:33
:P
SmokeMachine m: say “blable” ~~ /bla | ble/
camelia ｢bla｣
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Voldenet uh, ^ is xor almost everywhere 19:34
SmokeMachine When I say XOR, I think I don’t really mean XOR...
I was meaning something like | on regexp... 19:35
lizmat: ^^ 19:36
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Grinnz that's just "or" 19:36
SmokeMachine Yes... 19:37
lizmat ok, *phew* :-) 19:38
SmokeMachine :( sorry
lizmat: have you any opinion about what should be matched on my first msg? 19:39
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lizmat losing events without actually asking for it (with something like a .unique or so), feels wrong, so at first sight, I'd day 3 events emitted 19:41
[Coke] anyone in chat planning on attending the Perl/Raku conference in Houston this year? If so, please consider submitting a Raku talk! 19:43
if you don't know what to talk about, I'm sure we could crowd source that.
SmokeMachine lizmat: so you think that should emit for 1&&2, 2&&3 and 1&&3? 19:46
lizmat yeah, but please don't assign too much value to my opinion 19:47
Voldenet SmokeMachine: I think that question should be asked to the person that writes the matcher and the design should allow all the options
SmokeMachine Voldenet: yes, that makes sense... 19:48
Voldenet However, knowing the difference between version with ',' and without, I think it'd be fine to match everything 19:50
SmokeMachine Voldenet: suggestions of syntax?
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SmokeMachine (The , was an error) 19:50
Voldenet `match { :ex … }` or `match:ex { … }` 19:51
SmokeMachine I was thinking that :ex maybe should be the default... 19:52
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Voldenet but then you don't have an adverb that says the opposite 19:54
lizmat :!ex ?
Voldenet fair enough
SmokeMachine Makes sense... 19:55
lizmat a lot of people forget that you can used named Booleans that way in Raku, well, at least in the core 19:56
it's a part where the developers get tortured 19:57
because everytime you have a :$foo as a parameter
you actually need to check if $foo is True :-)
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SmokeMachine Do you think just clearing the matched query would make that work? 19:57
rypervenche So a negative named parameter boolean would be :!$foo then? 20:03
lizmat m: dd (foo => True)
camelia :foo
lizmat m: dd (foo => False) 20:04
camelia :!foo
lizmat rypervenche ^^
if that's what you mean with negative
rypervenche Yes. So no need for $ then?
lizmat m: my $foo = 42; dd (:$foo) 20:05
camelia :foo(42)
lizmat :$foo is just short for foo => $foo
rypervenche Ahhhhh, I haven't been able to find the page on this for a while. It's the Pair syntax. Ok, that makes sense. 20:07
Voldenet m: say ":" x 5 ~~ m:!ex/.*/
camelia ｢:::::｣
Voldenet …right
El_Che weekly: www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/comments...ws_in_raku 20:10
notable6 El_Che, Noted! (weekly)
tbrowder jmerelo: sorry about the news... 20:17
tellable6 tbrowder, I'll pass your message to jmerelo
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rypervenche lizmat: So I just tried this again. Does :!$thing not work to set a boolean as False by default? Am I doing the syntax wrong? Or would we simply only check to see if :$foo is True and if it's (Bool) then it's considered false? 20:22
I may have orded that badly. I'm looking to set a boolean to false by default, unless I use the CLI option to make it true. 20:23
lizmat m: sub a(:$foo = False) { dd $foo }; a; a :foo; a :!foo 20:24
camelia Bool::False
Bool::True
Bool::False
rypervenche Ah ok, so no shortcut syntax then.
lizmat m: sub a(:!$foo) { dd $foo } 20:25
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a(:7⏏5!$foo) { dd $foo }
lizmat no
I guess you could open a problem-solving issue to allow that
rypervenche Is that something that we would want for consistency?
I'll go ahead and open one then. Thanks. 20:26
lizmat yeah... it feels natural and it's a compilation error atm
rypervenche Oh, I'm an idiot. :$foo doesn't default to True. 20:31
Sorry about that. I had a misunderstanding of how :$foo worked for booleans...for some reason. I don't think :$!foo would need to be added in that case then. 20:35
lizmat m: sub a(:$foo = True) { dd $foo }; a; a :foo; a :!foo
camelia Bool::True
Bool::True
Bool::False
lizmat okidoki :-)
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SmokeMachine About signature and consistency with pair syntax, yesterday I’ve asked here if `sub bla(:a[$,$]) {}` should be equivalent to `sub bla(:a([$,$])) {}` 21:18
m: sub bla(:a[$, $]) {}; bla [1, 2] 21:19
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub bla(:7⏏5a[$, $]) {}; bla [1, 2]
SmokeMachine m: sub bla(:a[$, $]) {}; bla :a[1, 2] 21:20
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub bla(:7⏏5a[$, $]) {}; bla :a[1, 2]
SmokeMachine m: sub bla(:a([$, $])) {}; bla :a[1, 2]
camelia ( no output )
SmokeMachine lizmat: ^^ 21:22
lizmat jnthn would really know if that could be done... 21:24
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jnthn SmokeMachine: I said no yesterday. What wasn't clear? 21:28
SmokeMachine jnthn: yes, that was... I was trying to say that if it was a no for that, probably it would be a no for :!$foo on the signature as well... 21:33
jnthn What would that mean? 21:34
Other than a bad time when I typo :$!foo... :)
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rypervenche SmokeMachine: That was a mistake on my end. I had misunderstood how :$foo worked. So :!$foo wouldn't make sense, I think. 21:34
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jnthn Or more usefully: what semantics are you looking for? 21:35
patrickb o/
SmokeMachine I’ve probably misread that...
patrickb jmerelo: Is there a way to find out why we were rejected at this years GSoC? That'd be really good to know. 21:36
tellable6 patrickb, I'll pass your message to jmerelo
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patrickb jmerelo: Was the TPF organization deleted? When I try to log in with my google account it says I'm not part of any organization anymore... 21:36
tellable6 patrickb, I'll pass your message to jmerelo
SmokeMachine I’ve read lizmat saying that a problem solver issue could be open to ask for :!$foo, and I was trying to say that probably not... sorry if I misunderstood... 21:37
rypervenche SmokeMachine: For some reason I was thinking that :$foo made $foo default to True, so I wanted a default False as well. But :$foo is just a named parameter that is undefined until you pass an argument to it. So it was my fault.
I'm still new to the language and was just trying to be helpful. :X 21:38
lizmat jnthn: I think the idea was that (:!$foo) would be equivalent to (:$foo = False)
in any case, that's how I understood it
jnthn But if $foo { } will come out false anyway without assigning the default, so just type-constrain it to bool and be happy :) 21:39
(or don't, and be happy enough anyway...)
lizmat yeah... except it wouldn't be a Bool... but yeah :-) 21:40
jnthn: Promise eqv Promise, should that always check the result (and block if necessary?) 21:41
m: my $p := Promise.new; dd $p eqv $p # doesn't hang
camelia Bool::True
lizmat m: my $p = Promise.new; dd $p eqv $p # hangs 21:42
camelia Bool::True
lizmat eh?
m: my $p = Promise.new; dd $p eqv $p<> # hangs
feels like that piece of code should always hang 21:43
jnthn lizmat: I don't think anything should implicitly dereference a Promise 21:44
Only .result and await
So far as eqv goes, they're opaque references
lizmat so, "nqp::eqaddr(a,b) || a.result eqv b.result" is ok with you, provided some deconts are mixed in ?
jnthn Having eqv lock up feels...un-good
lizmat ah, ok, gotcha the wrong way around 21:45
jnthn I'd be wary of doing anything like "well, if they're both kept, compare the values" too, 'cus I fear it'll lead to unreliable code that can fail if it gets unlucky with timing 21:46
So probably best is just to not try to be magical here
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jnthn (But were it going to, it should `await` rather than `.result`) 21:47
lizmat that code has been in there for quite some time :-) 21:50
since Oct 2016 actually :-) 21:51
actually, it predates that 21:52
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lizmat jnthn: no spectest breakage 21:53
will keep it for after the release, to be on the save side 21:55
jnthn OK 21:59
If there happens to some day be vast demand for this kind of thing, I guess we can always have an A meta-operator :P
But...I've yet to see it :) 22:00
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lizmat calls it a day& 22:31
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[Coke] night! 22:44
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