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Set by lizmat on 6 September 2022.
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lizmat hopes it's safe to wish everybody a happy and fruitful 2025! 13:43
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antononcube Thank you, @lizmat! Same to you! 14:06
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lizmat RakuIRCLogger 14:08
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tbrowder and same to you lizmat, and all my raku friends--hope to see you in Greenville in June 15:08
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[Coke] I am guessing we will be light on non-US participants this year. 16:46
I am considering going, maybe we keep a list of folks who are a maybe or better? 16:47
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antononcube It is seems that conference is going to happen when I am at a certain summer school it MT. So, I most likely I won't go. 17:16
[Coke] github.com/perlconference/tprc-202...i/Raku-BOF 17:17
Spouse apparently up for a 13 hour drive to SC.
antononcube Is the call for papers still on? 17:21
I guess it is: www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/1h6...rs_closes/ 17:25
guifa I'm going but dunno what I'll talk about yet 17:37
antononcube I have at ≈ 5 things I want to talk about. Hopefully, more than one talk person is allowed. 17:39
guifa yeah it is 17:40
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grondilu m: multi prefix:<->(UInt $n --> UInt) { callsame() mod $*m }; say -1 # no error, $*m is just ignored? 17:48
camelia -1
grondilu m: my $*m = 11; multi prefix:<->(UInt $n --> UInt) { callsame() mod $*m }; say -1
camelia -1
grondilu m: multi prefix:<->(UInt $n --> UInt) { callsame() mod 11 }; say -1
camelia 10
grondilu that looks LTA
not even a warning? 17:49
lizmat m: dd 1,^name 17:54
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
name used at line 1
lizmat m: dd 1.^name
camelia "Int"
lizmat m: dd Uint ~~ Int
camelia ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Expected a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~
(to suppress this message, please use a space like ~ ~)
at <tmp>:1
------> dd Uint ~~<HERE> Int
lizmat m: dd UInt ~~ Int
camelia Bool::True
lizmat m: dd Int ~~ UInt
camelia Bool::True
lizmat hmmm
the latter feels wrong 17:55
grondilu I doubt its about casting though, as the line with a literal modulus works as expected. 18:03
antononcube @grondilu Are you still interested in Raku-symbolics? 18:04
grondilu well, it'd be useful to me but I'm not willing to put much effort into it these days. 18:05
currently I'm working on a Reed-Solomon implementation so I need a Polynomial class that works with finite fields. 18:06
the finite fields module I wrote some time ago is not as useful as I was hoping. 18:07
I really wish I could redefine all arithmetics operators in the current lexical scope in just one line but I can't make it work. 18:08
let alone having it to work with a module that was written for normal arithmetics, like Math::Polynomial 18:09
antononcube Symbolics is a big field, and currently I am too busy (or should be) with certain numerics packages. And "Graph". 18:12
grondilu well, I'm struggling rn to even get the long division work, even though there is code on rosettacode 18:15
grondilu realizes a mistake he made 18:16
oh well at least now I see what I did wrong
antononcube 💡 18:17
grondilu I had actually reversed the coefficients of polynomials to fit the convention on RC, but that can't work unless I pad with zeros first.
what a hassle
so yeah, it'd be nice to have a good symbolics package. 18:18
symbolic mathematics is underrated in programming IMHO
antononcube Well, yeah! 18:19
I have been telling this to people for years. Non having symbolic computations handy is / was really restricting what you can compute.
I expected this to become less important with LLMs evolution, though. 18:20
(It is already.)
grondilu Have you considered making an interface with maxima? 18:22
antononcube No!!! 🙂
Mathematica is just fine for me. 18:23
grondilu Mathematica is not FOSS, though.
It's great, don't get me wrong, but it's just going to cause friction.
antononcube Yeah. But my long term plan is to re-implement Mathematica in Raku. So, I much interested in having seemless Mathematica utilization in Raku in order to support that effort. 18:24
After RakuAST is released, that would be much easier. So, I am kind of in a waiting mode for that project. (I started it a few years ago.) 18:25
grondilu Well, godspeed then.
I wanted to do something like that too but it was way over my head. I do remember that I concluded that RakuAST would help indeed. 18:26
(only vaguely remember, though)
antononcube 🙂 Thanks! I have been neglecting Mathematica projects in favor of Raku ones. So, again, I would rather deal or interface with Mathematica, out of guild, at least. 18:27
grondilu have you looked into maxima at least a bit, though?
I mean you don't want to reinvent the wheel
antononcube I used maxima first 25+ years ago. Last time I looked into it was 3-5 years ago when I was looking for Raku enhancements. 18:29
Honestly, it is too much like Mathematica and much "weaker" in any respect. So, I am not that interested investing in anything maxima-related. 18:31
grondilu noted
antononcube What, I was saying earlier about RakuAST for Mathematica -- look at this actions class: github.com/antononcube/Raku-Mathematica-Grammar 18:32
I mean this link: github.com/antononcube/Raku-Mathem...rm.rakumod
The idea is interpret Mathematica expr into Raku code. 18:33
Without RakuAST I can do just that -- generate text. 18:34
grondilu Well you could generate raku lists, couldn't you? 18:35
antononcube Yeah, that was my original idea or the attempt. 18:36
BTW, if Mathematica is "figured out" Raku-wise, that means that any similar system can be also "interfaced" in that way.
grondilu I think it should also be possible to process Wolfram Language expressions directly and implement transformation rules with regexes substitutions. 18:37
or use an intermediate language like S-Expressions or even lambda-calculus for that matter. there's many ways to do it, but none of them is easy. 18:38
antononcube Yes! And the other way around -- Mathematica can process Raku expressions directly with both symbolic and numeric computations. 18:39
Again, I aggree -- that is why I implemented "Mathematica::Grammar". I have the S-expressions and symbolics in that way. I "just" have to have building of the corresponding Raku expressions. 18:40
grondilu I'm not sure what these raku expressions would look like. 18:41
It seems to me that we should stick to a textual representation bridge.
antononcube "Ungly" code in NQP or RakuAST style. 🙂
This is what is more less happening here (wrt "textual representation bridge"): raku.land/zef:antononcube/Proc::ZMQed 18:42
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As, you say, if the Raku expression, say, ($x + $y)**2, is replaced with the equivalent Mathematica one, ($x + $y)^2 , then can get the Mathematica to symbolically evaluate and the value substitution on Raku's end. 18:44
grondilu $x and $y would be undefined Numeric variables then, right? 18:45
or (Any) I suppose 18:46
antononcube Yeah. But again, this a "text bridge". So, I get Raku expression back from Mathematica which I can just EVAL with concrete numeric values. 18:47
grondilu m: class MathExpression {} ; multi prefix:<+>(Any:U $) { MathExpression.new }; say +my $x
camelia Ambiguous call to 'prefix:<+>(Any)'; these signatures all match:
(\a) from SETTING::src/core.c/Numeric.rakumod line 61
(Any:U $) from <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
grondilu m: say +my $x 18:50
camelia Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context
0
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
nahita3882 is default would make first one work 18:51
grondilu looks default trait in doc
that seems like a different semantics 18:52
nahita3882 it would be a way to get decisive on the dispatch, i.e., I meant: 18:53
m: class MathExpression {} ; multi prefix:<+>(Any:U $) is default { MathExpression.new }; say +my $x
evalable6 Cannot test e7f9223c59e70e9cd829b592bc3133322b82b3ab (Broken archive)
linkable6 (2024-12-30) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e7f9223c59 [JVM] Add extra check for GLOBAL being null (#5710)
Raku eval MathExpression.new
grondilu In any case ideally any CAS under raku should be a slang. IMHO. 18:56
and these are NYI IIUC
which is why I concluded that RakuAST would eventually help, I think. 18:57
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antononcube Well, it seems natural to make a slang first. 19:10
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lizmat if you make a new slang, be sure to use Slangify: raku.land/zef:lizmat/Slangify 19:25
that will make it more likely it will continue to work with the new Raku grammar without needing changes to your code 19:26
antononcube ✍️ 19:27
As I have mentioned, I work on "doomify" -- I hope that finish that Raku post today. 19:28
I pulished the Mathematica one yesterday. But I started writing the Raku one first.
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patrickb [Coke], lizmat: I've just released Terminal-MakeRaw 1.0.1. This might / should fix the line editor issues you observe on Mac. A version bump in Terminal-LineEditor is not necessary as it depends on Terminal-MakeRaw `1.0.0+`. 20:49
lizmat patrickb++ 20:50
antononcube weekly: rakuforprediction.wordpress.com/20...-plotting/ 20:51
notable6 antononcube, Noted! (weekly)
lizmat antononcube will you post on /r/rakulang, or shall I ? 20:52
antononcube Ah -- please do it 20:55
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lizmat antononcube so done 23:40
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