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| [Coke] | tonyo: github.com/tony-o/perl6-web-scraper/issues/8 | 02:02 | |
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| apogee_ntv | Just pushed a huge Selkie update that I've been working on for days. Adds gradient fills, tweens, padding, widget disabling, text alignment in text fields, tab bar with badges & nicer styling, configurable glyphs for supporting nerd fonts, rounded & double border support... lots of UI stuff mostly and a bugfix in tables. | 11:25 | |
| [Coke] | apogee_ntv++ | 11:38 | |
| lizmat | apogee_ntv: is there a blog post in the works about Selkie? | 11:53 | |
| apogee_ntv | lizmat: I plan to drop a website for Selkie at 1.0.0 | 12:09 | |
| lizmat | cool.. please do a weekly: for that when it happens! | 12:10 | |
| apogee_ntv | Will do, targeting September/October ideally. | 12:11 | |
| I am building production tooling with it for my consulting workflow & for clients, I think it can be useful for a lot of people and for raku. | 12:12 | ||
| lizmat | ++apogee_ntv | ||
| apogee_ntv | wormhole.app/en4MXZ#qzvqAKjYJJpwnzidfbMj5g Example Selkie todo app that I use daily (full GTD flow, similar to Omnifocus but adds time logging & timesheet exports). I still need to add the API to integrate with IDE & MCP. | 12:24 | |
| Voldenet | I wish notcurses got more compatibility | 12:37 | |
| apogee_ntv | It is broadly compatible with a lot of modern ttys | 12:38 | |
| The main issue is it can do things that not all ttys support like image rendering. | 12:39 | ||
| Voldenet | except mosh, except screen, except tmux | ||
| idk, it feels like another fancy "works under kitty" thing | 12:40 | ||
| it's unusable for majority of people that aren't on the most modern branch of the most modern terminals | |||
| I can't blame original author for not developing for some ancient tech | 12:41 | ||
| but at the same time terminals are mostly ancient tech… | |||
| apogee_ntv | There is a patch for tmux, author just hasnt merged it | 12:43 | |
| Voldenet | yeah, the worst part is that on multiple versions of tmux (I have not tested the newest ones) it simply hangs | ||
| apogee_ntv | I will see about adding it to the fork that I run Selkie on. | ||
| mosh is a much harder fix than tmux | |||
| notcurses patches are a bit slow going so selkie uses a fork where I have fixed *some* issues that are waiting for upstream PR acceptance | 12:45 | ||
| Voldenet | well, mosh is kinda "I can't believe it works" sort of technology ;p | ||
| apogee_ntv | Yeah, it is actually on my todo list to work out notcurses over mosh but every time I've looked it's been a nightmare to debug | 12:46 | |
| I do know the notcurses codebase pretty well but not the mosh codebase | |||
| Voldenet | when I have time I'll definitely check out if newest selkie works everywhere | 12:47 | |
| apogee_ntv | But nc should work on *most* terminals, should only be image stuff that's kitty/wezterm-only | ||
| iterm is known broken because they advertise support for kitty image protocol in negotiation and then don't actually support it fully | 12:48 | ||
| Voldenet | honestly, I accept some rarely used things being broken, it's a reality in terminals | 12:49 | |
| like images or unicode | |||
| I'm happy that most terminals support 24-bit colors, it took some time, but we're here finally ;D | |||
| [Coke] | "back in my day", I remember there being a queue for the actual vt220 terminals. | 12:51 | |
| Voldenet | "back in my day" I was surprised there were 256 colors in terminals… :D | 12:52 | |
| [Coke] | :) | ||
| apogee_ntv | Its one of those things with a TUI framework where you either end up not supporting any of the nice stuff or trying to wedge them onto the old ttys that never added support for i.e. sixel or 24bit lol. | ||
| nc seems to have found the best mix | 12:53 | ||
| [Coke] goes down a brief rabbit hole, and discovers that the original list price of the vt220 was (in 1983 dollars) nearly twice what (in 2026 dollars) I just spent for a 32-core/32G/1Tb computer. | |||
| apogee_ntv | Is that 32G graphics 1T RAM or 32 RAM 1T SSD? :D Because those are very different dollars esp in this economy. | 12:55 | |
| lizmat | yeah... my first 386 in 1988 was priced at what would now be something like 30K euros (it came with a 10MB HD, and 1MB or RAM :-) | ||
| Voldenet | hm, in 1983 1$ is 3.5$ today :) | ||
| phew the price difference is still there | |||
| apogee_ntv | My first computer was an Atari STe with 512kb RAM | 12:56 | |
| Voldenet | apogee_ntv: I wonder if notcurses could have the tool for setting environment variables | ||
| e.g. a simple app with all features, letting you pick "disable checkboxes" for things that not work | |||
| autodetection is nice, but if some terminals are lying, then I think it'd be most practical | 12:57 | ||
| apogee_ntv | Voldenet: Probably, generally they gracefully degrade i.e. images just show up as blocks of color | ||
| Voldenet | Sort of, but you still have to guess what to tweak using manpages, it's not a fun experience | ||
| apogee_ntv | No I mean, nc does that for you. It negotiates capabilities with the term and then degrades to the term's caps. | 13:00 | |
| i.e. I just tested my gtd app in the Apple standard terminal and the only thing that doesn't work is charts because they need sixel or kitty graphics, they just render as blobs of color | 13:01 | ||
| The really broken cases are, as I've found, terminals like iterm that advertize 'yes this supports kitty graphics' and then it turns out they actually don't. | 13:02 | ||
| They support a subset of kitty graphics | |||
| Voldenet | really broken cases are where terminals don't negotiate capabilities properly | 13:06 | |
| I'm not sure how often it is, but that sort of tool could help fixing mosh maybe | |||
| since you could skip detection and visually see if things work or not | |||
| I'm sure that such approach would come with its own problems, but in some cases that's the only way to fix things | 13:11 | ||
| apogee_ntv | With mosh it seems to be something deeper, even setting TERM=xterm its broken | 13:39 | |
| And that would negotiate nothing | |||
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| Voldenet | I think that term capabilities detection is something that could be skipped entirely and could be typed out manually… | 13:51 | |
| [Coke] | 1t ssd. :) i'm not made of money. :) | 13:52 | |
| Voldenet | to fight rising ram prices, personally owning 1T of ram is illegal anyway | 13:53 | |
| (it's a joke) | |||
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