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Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
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Petr i have troubles with Gumbo parser in Windows. 01:10
Slowed ))
problem solved 01:12
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Nemokosch hi, what does "moar-blead" mean at the backend options? 08:22
MasterDuke HEAD of the three repos (rakudo, nqp, moarvm), instead of the version specified in the (MOAR|NQP)_REVISION files 08:25
a pun on "the bleeding edge" 08:26
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Nemokosch okay, thanks 👀 08:29
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_________ m: !!! !! 08:42
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Prefix ! requires an argument, but no valid term found.
Did you mean ! to be an opening bracket for a declarator block?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3!!! !!7⏏5<EOL>
expecting any of:
p…
_________ m: !!!
camelia Stub code executed
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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mfiano Can someone point me to any style convention guide? 10:11
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Nemokosch Is that even a thing in the Perl world? 😂 10:16
mfiano I am unsure. I am new to Perl in general, but most languages have a recommendation of either tabs or spaces, how many to use for indentation, maximum number of columns, etc 10:17
Nemokosch raku.guide/ just found something 10:20
> 10:21
> Naming conventions:
>
> Camel case: variableNo1
>
> Kebab case: variable-no1
>
> Snake case: variable_no1
>
> You are free to name your identifiers as you like, but it is good practice to adopt one naming convention consistently.
lol thank you very much
😄
MasterDuke you could look at the rakudo source. it doesn't have any hard and fast rules, but you'll see mostly similar formatting/etc with some individual differences 10:22
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Nemokosch I have the impression that kebab case is popular for example 10:22
mfiano I was mostly wondering about indentation space count and max line length. But fair enough if there is none 10:23
lizmat personally keeps at 4 and 80 10:24
mfiano (currently configuring my editor so those are the only conventions needed right now)
lizmat with 2 spaces for non-scoped things
mfiano I see. Ok, thanks. I just believe code is read more than it is written, and some language communities feel strongly about these things. 10:25
MasterDuke uses 4 and ~120
Nemokosch My vague idea of the overall Perl community is that people aren't into these formalisms
lizmat fwiw, I think internal consistency is most important 10:26
mfiano Indeed.
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Kaiepi ditto MasterDuke 10:36
Xliff_ does Raku have something similar to XML::Class, but for JSON? 10:38
lizmat raku.land/?q=JSON ?? 10:44
mfiano Nice. The stats link on that page suggests a nice yearly growth rate over the last couple years. 10:47
Xliff_ Huh. JSON::Class is there. Why didn't my initial search find it? 11:01
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RaycatWhoDat Man, I gotta say... Adding Array types to signatures or making types that use Array do not feel intuitive 14:46
I tried doing something to the tune of `subset IntArray of Array[Int] where * > 0; sub print(IntArray @numbers) { .say for @numbers; }` 14:47
What's the correct way to do something like this in Raku?
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melezhik . 14:47
tellable6 2021-10-13T22:53:45Z #raku <tbrowder> melezhik a selection by language would be useful (don't forget Perl)
melezhik tbrowder I will take a look at what I can do, thanks for suggestion 14:48
there is also github.com/melezhik/mybfio in case someone wants to drop an idea or a bug is found
I have added small unicode icons for mybf.io rating page, so users can see the last action happened to projects ... 14:49
Xliff_ RaycatWhoDat: What happens when you do that, do you have that piece of code on the web somewhere? (ala tio or repl.it)
RaycatWhoDat Lemme get that 14:50
MasterDuke RaycatWhoDat: do you want that sub to take an array *of* IntArrays? or just one IntArray? 14:51
RaycatWhoDat One Array of Ints where each element is greater than 0 14:52
glot.io/snippets/g3a7q50p6t
err
glot.io/snippets/g3a7q50p6t
Altreus it complains even if you just say "subset IntArray of Array" 14:55
RaycatWhoDat: if you do (IntArray $numbers) it works 14:56
RaycatWhoDat ?
Why would it need to be a scalar there?
Altreus no it doesn't
cos it accepts 0 :D
Nemokosch wait what 14:57
RaycatWhoDat I got it 14:58
Nemokosch got what?
RaycatWhoDat glot.io/snippets/g3a7q50p6t
Altreus that's the same 14:59
RaycatWhoDat I don't like it but a combination of a coercion and changing the sigil worked
Nemokosch it's the same though
Altreus I think you have to press save
Nemokosch it still doesn't work
RaycatWhoDat glot.io/snippets/g3aa7ye8pk7 15:00
err
glot.io/snippets/g3a7ye8pk7
Nemokosch do realize that your for is iterating over one element 15:01
Altreus RaycatWhoDat: but it still accepts 0
Nemokosch which is the whole array as one encapsulated element
RaycatWhoDat drat
Altreus that was the same problem I had :D
RaycatWhoDat I feel like I'm missing some nuance of Arrays here 15:02
Altreus agreed 15:04
wait
why not define NonNegativeInt and then just demand an array of that
Nemokosch that didn't work either 15:05
I can confirm 😅
Altreus :D
also I meant PositiveInt apparently
cos > 0 not ≥ 0 15:06
basically I have no idea how to define the types of an array's elements 15:07
«Type @array» seems intuitive but that doesn't seem to do it
Nemokosch it doesn't? I'm just reading about it 15:08
Altreus need a grownup 15:09
Nemokosch and what is this "Positional" shit? where does it come from? 15:10
Xliff_ Actually, what you want is to use the subset in the type. 15:11
So...
Altreus isn't Positional just a role that arrays do?
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; my PosInt @a = (-1, -2, 0, 1, 2);
camelia Type check failed in assignment to @a; expected PosInt but got Int (-1)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Nemokosch isn't `Positional[Array(PosInt)]` a big fat pleonasm then?
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; my PosInt @a = ^10;;
camelia ( no output )
MasterDuke m: sub foo(@n where {so all($_.map( -> $m {$m ~~ Int and $m > 0}))}) { dd @n }; foo([1, 2, -3]) 15:12
camelia Constraint type check failed in binding to parameter '@n'; expected anonymous constraint to be met but got Array ([1, 2, -3])
in sub foo at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Altreus OK so Type @array is how you do it
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; my PosInt @a = ^10; @a.gist.say;
camelia [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]
Xliff_ Alreus: Yep.
MasterDuke m: sub foo(@n where {so all($_.map( -> $m {$m ~~ Int and $m > 0}))}) { dd @n }; foo([1, 2, 3])
camelia Array element = [1, 2, 3]
Nemokosch > OK so Type @array is how you do it
except it really didn't work
not for signatures
Altreus yeah 15:13
Xliff_ It's just syntacical sugar for Array[PosInt];
m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; my PosInt @a = ^10; @a.^of.^name.say
camelia No such method 'of' for invocant of type
'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW+{<anon>}+{<anon>}+{<anon>}'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; my PosInt @a = ^10; @a.of.^name.say
camelia PosInt
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; my PosInt @a = ^10; @a.of.^name.say; @a.^name.say
camelia PosInt
Array[PosInt]
Nemokosch now show a function
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(PosInt @array) { .say for @array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@array'; expected PosInt but got Array ([1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Altreus Xliff_: why this no worky
Xliff_ You'd use the latter form for the signature. 15:14
Altreus so like...
m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt] @array) { .say for @array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
Nemokosch exactly this error
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@array'; expected Positional[Array[PosInt]] but got Array ([1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Altreus Xliff_: this?
Nemokosch Positional[Array] again, thank you very much...
Xliff_ OK. I may be incorrect. One sec.
Nemokosch noone asked for this Positional 15:15
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(PosInt @array) { .say for @array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@array'; expected PosInt but got Array ([1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Altreus hang on I'm going to swap...
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt] $array) { .say for @array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '@array' is not declared. Did you mean any of these:
'$array', 'array', 'Array'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 sub f(Array[PosInt] $array) { .say for 7⏏5@array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
altreus™ Much easier to read IRC here than Discord there
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt] $array) { .say for $array[] }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '$array'; expected Array[PosInt] but got Array ([1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
MasterDuke m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt] $array) { .say for @$array }; f(Array[PosInt].new([1,2,3,4,5])); 15:16
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
MasterDuke m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt] $array) { .say for @$array }; f(Array[PosInt].new([1,2,3,4,-5]));
camelia Type check failed in assignment to ; expected PosInt but got Int (-5)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff_ m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt] $array) { .say for $array[] }; my PosInt @b = (1,2,3,4,5); f(@b);
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
altreus™ @Nemokosch#9980 the Positional part comes from the `@`, i.e. you've asked for an array-of-Array[PosInt]
Nemokosch but that wasn't the intention, right?
Xliff_ When you type an array, you can't pass it an untyped array.
altreus™ raku's typing is a mess, I have to say
Nemokosch man, this is like inverse TypeScript 15:17
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() $array) { .say for @array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '@array' is not declared. Did you mean any of these:
'$array', 'array', 'Array'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ub f(Array[PosInt]() $array) { .say for 7⏏5@array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
Xliff_ Array typing works, it's not intuitive, but it works.
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() $array) { .say for @$array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() $array) { .say for @$array }; f([0,1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia 0
1
2
3
4
5
Altreus lmao
Nemokosch ngl you would expect more from a runtime dispatch
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(PosInt() @array) { .say for @array }; f([0,1,2,3,4,5]); 15:18
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@array'; expected Positional[PosInt(Any)] but got Array ([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff_ Well hey! Look at t hat.
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0; sub f(Array[PosInt()]() $array) { .say for @$array }; f([0,1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia 0
1
2
3
4
5
altreus™ I'd rather this stuff were intuitive than correct
Nemokosch what are the parantheses?
altreus™ Don't like feeling that Java is doing anything better 15:19
Parens = coercion
Nemokosch I mean in C yes but how does this follow in this context...
altreus™ f(Str() $a) stringifies rather than complaining
well I thought I'd make it coerce the provided array to an array of PosInt
oh
I just realised this one has >=
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() $array) { .say for @$array }; f([0,1,2,3,4,5]); 15:20
camelia Type check failed in assignment to ; expected PosInt but got Int (0)
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
altreus™ eyy it works
Nemokosch That's okay, dumb carried weight 😄
altreus™ I thought it failed to apply the PosInt, but in fact it was defined slightly differently
Nemokosch Okay, that's actually reasonable behavior, gotta admit
Just the syntax is a little weird
As if someone wanted to supersede C++ at the use of all kind of crazy parentheses 15:21
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does this only work with the $ sigil? 15:23
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; sub f(PosInt() @array) { .say for @array }; f([0,1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '@array'; expected Positional[PosInt(Any)] but got Array ([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5])
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Altreus yes
Nemokosch "Positional"
Altreus cos you need to coerce the array itself 15:24
Nemokosch like duh, noone wants that
Altreus well you could pass any class that does Positional :)
Nemokosch this kinda defeats the purpose of sigils
altreus™ do you reckon 15:25
I feel like it would not harm the intuitiveness of raku if it unpacked arrays like that 15:26
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; sub f(PosInt() *@array) { .say for @array }; f(0,1,2,3,4,5);
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Slurpy positional parameters with type constraints are not supported
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 Int where * > 0; sub f(PosInt() *@array7⏏5) { .say for @array }; f(0,1,2,3,4,5);
expecting any o…
Altreus what
altreus™ <:f7u12:740532507728150539>
heh I wondered what IRC would make of that 15:27
Nemokosch Not sure who said it, maybe it was Bruce Gray but I wouldn't bet my life on it... 15:28
that an important feat of Raku is that gives you what's useful to you and not what's useful to the computer
altreus™ Can't say I find that's upheld too much 15:29
Nemokosch now this sigil hacking feels painfully the opposite
I don't feel strongly about the concept of sigils but sometimes it really feels like they are someone's obsession that couldn't really be rationalized 15:30
RaycatWhoDat I personally didn't know they were anything other than convention 15:31
But, clearly, that's not right
Nemokosch oof xd
now you learned it the hard way! 15:32
in Perl5 they were even context-dependent
altreus™ I far prefer their purpose in Perl5 15:33
sigilless raku is, thankfully, quite possible
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() \array) { .say for array }; f([0,1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia Type check failed in assignment to ; expected PosInt but got Int (0)
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Nemokosch I hope you don't mean that backslash stuff... oh no 15:34
too late xd
altreus™ right - let's just lose the backslash and make this the default :D
it seems to work in every situation
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() \array) { .say for array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]);
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
altreus™ it even iterates the array ^
if that were a scalar it wouldn't
Altreus m: my subset PosInt of Int where * > 0; sub f(Array[PosInt]() $array) { .say for $array }; f([1,2,3,4,5]); 15:35
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
Nemokosch the behavior is so fundamentally different though
like pure functional
altreus™ but like ... why not
As you say, what do the sigils *do* other than confound things?
if you don't use them it seems to always behave as expected
Nemokosch as long as you give up your choice to mutate, well, pseudo-variables that you have 15:36
mfiano lizmat: Gave a talk on why you will love sigiling not too long ago 15:37
Nemokosch not gonna lie, I can't recall much of it
lizmat conf.raku.org/talk/145 15:38
Nemokosch but I remember it happened
altreus™ I watched it and it helped me understand them, but now I'm wondering if I need to understand them
Nemokosch lol
you know, I just don't understand why they can't properly work with typing 15:39
melezhik tbrowder I added customize icon, where you can choose language ( only one language, multiple selected is not supported right now )
Nemokosch the collection types in particular
melezhik and then only rating for a chosen language will be in your browser
the language setting sticks to a browser ( as a cookie ) and remains forever until you change it 15:40
Nemokosch it feels like such a luxury to have dedicated sigils for essential collection types if they fail on something as mundane as a typed flat array
melezhik Uploaded file: uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/c223f1d6...B6FF5.jpeg 15:41
Nemokosch that's by far not "hacking the language" imo
tbrowder melezhik: the language selection feature works great. thanks! 15:42
melezhik tbrowder ++, hopefully will be helpful for the community )))
you can also checkout a new "release" feature )) to announce releases of one's modules 15:43
altreus™ might go and learn rust ...
RaycatWhoDat Rust is a language that doesn't get along with me 15:44
tbrowder now we need a link to yr site on Raku.org (community?
)
melezhik also on project badge page now there is "claim ownership" link so that a project author or maintainer could claim their ownership - reserved for the future 15:45
Nemokosch yeah ngl I just don't feel I care about Rust
melezhik tbrowder , ++ )) I don't mind of course, will be honored !
Nemokosch it looks nice and all, just not here and now for sure
tbrowder is your Cro implementation available publicly (at least partially)? 15:46
altreus™ Well I tried Haskell and it melted my brain so if I want consistent but strongly constrained typing I might as well try the modern answer to C 15:49
tbrowder ref Rust: i took a look at it early on (even bought a book) but wasn't wild about the building and packaging system. guess i used Make for too long.
Nemokosch tbh I find type systems overrated. They can help at being lazy but that's about it 15:51
RaycatWhoDat I'm a big fan of gradual typing 15:52
Just let me poke holes when I need to
tbrowder also still $working and bosses didn't want the go that route ("clinging to the trailing edge of technology" was the company motto we in the trenches said, teasingly)
RaycatWhoDat: same here, and our fav lang is great for Dat 15:53
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Nemokosch in this regard I'm very pleased with Typescript. Almost feels like it made Node a solid ecosystem 15:56
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RaycatWhoDat tbrowder: I see what you've done and I despise you for it 16:15
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lizmat RaycatWhoDat: ?? 16:15
RaycatWhoDat He made a pun
lizmat ah... well... that'd be ok on a #raku channel, though? with a language that has a term called "punning" :-) 16:16
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melezhik twitter.com/melezhik2/status/14486...6326341638 - interesting question on Rakubrew ... 16:48
tbrowder RaycatWhoDat: no offense intended, but you’ve obviously not seen some of the punny stuff here ;-D 17:04
i should have said [[p|f] unny] 17:06
Nemokosch s\/.*\/\/ 17:07
[Coke] found a way to make my "call lots of git commands" faster, by skipping one call per branch, whee. 17:13
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melezhik tbrowder "is your Cro implementation available publicly (at least partially)?" - no, now the web app code is in private GH repo. For some reasons I din't want to make it public ... Still not sure .... Do you want to contribute? 17:56
tbrowder not necessarily. i’m interested in using Cro in a reverse proxy on Apache and am always on the lookout for publicly available implementations. 17:58
melezhik ah, ok I see , then you might be interested in this as well - github.com/croservices/cro-core/is...-940489635 18:00
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tbrowder thanks! 18:07
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melezhik sure 19:42
Xliff_ lizmat: They were just having pun. 19:44
Oh! I'm johny come lately... (whose name doesn't even start with 'J') 19:45
I'll shut up, now.
lizmat tssskkkk :-)
Xliff_ ]:>
gfldex I would like to add that this channel is puntastic! 19:46
Xliff_ gfldex: It would be even better if the 'g' and 'd' in your nick were silent. 19:47
Then we'd be all about the muscles!
Xliff_ flees
El_Che fleas 19:48
Xliff_ El_Che: Hey there! I'll have you know that all of my shots are up to date! 19:50
Just don't ask what they were shots of and we'll all be happy! :D 19:51
.oO( aaahhh... te-keeel-ya! )
El_Che nothing to see here
of everything twice
or
Xliff_ El_Che: Are you trying to tell me to move on?
El_Che or stick around 19:52
just don't wake up the sleeping shells
lizmat ooooooo 19:53
El_Che there you go 19:54
melezhik I am not sure if I follow all the jokes and slang ))) I hope it's fun ... 20:00
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El_Che giving you the impression it's coherent and funny is part of the fun 20:07
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tbrowder melezhik: for fun you should check out my Raku program that looks like a Christmas tree 20:20
melezhik tbrowder++ ))) 20:35
perryprog This is a question I've always meant to ask—it's not Raku specific in the slightest, but I'm really curious what y'all's perspectives on it might be. How do you put into practice languages that you are teaching yourself? That is, how should one "come up with" projects/tools/scripts to write in with a language they're learning? 20:49
MasterDuke i've done rosalind rosalind.info/ and project euler projecteuler.net/ problems 20:52
perryprog (Ugh that reminds me, I need to work on projecteuler again)
MasterDuke synacore and matasano challenges also 20:53
perryprog I suppose projecteuler and similar things are definitely nice, but I've often felt like a lot of the challenges lend themselves more towards small, self-contained problems that are encapsulated in single functions. They don't tend to be something you could call a "project", if that makes sense. 20:54
MasterDuke yep. synacore and matasano are a little better in that regard 20:56
perryprog MasterDuke, hmm www.vanbeeknaturalscience.com/prod...n/synacore
MasterDuke challenge.synacor.com/ 20:57
perryprog Matasano looks /super/ interesting. Does it have a website? I just found the info from this git repo, but the link it has is dead: github.com/mteodoro/crypto_challenge 21:01
melezhik I had some problems with posting my latest post about mybf.io principles on HN, hopefully this attempt will be more successful - news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28870006 21:02
MasterDuke huh. don't know, haven't looked at it in a long time 21:03
cryptopals.com/ maybe a continuation of it? 21:04
perryprog Ah, nice, looks like it 21:05
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RaycatWhoDat See, all these folks are able to do all these challenges and problems, and I'm just over here using Raku for glorified bash scripting 21:30
tbrowder melezhik: see raku-advent.blog/2020/12/11/day-11...h-a-class/ 21:52
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tbrowder perryprog: also look at rosettacode.org 23:06
perryprog Oh I do all the time
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[Coke] how often does the examples site get regen'd? 23:22
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Geth examples: 0c15ac220c | Coke++ | 22 files
Remove all Euler samples > 100

See projecteuler.net/about (you may have to sign in)
Project Euler asks that solutions to problems > 100 not be shared.
Resolve issue #79		 23:28
examples: 26396e778d | Coke++ | TODO
There's already a 'make test' target

  ...which needs work, but in spirit covers this todo		 23:37
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Geth examples: 17f5c4ac11 | Coke++ | 2 files
Several P6 -> Raku updates

including the IRC channel		 23:51
[Coke] (regened) never, apparently. last updated on 2019-05-23 23:52
Geth examples: 5cf55a3dba | Coke++ | template/footer.html
P6 > Raku.

Remove "incomplete" text, which makes *some* sense for docs but not examples.		 23:53
perryprog [Coke] nice changes 23:58
(The raku examples have been kinda lacking in my opinion)
They don't really compare to one of those full length "COBOL by example" things 23:59
[Coke] it's not been updated for 2+ years, so... :)
perryprog yeaaaah
that too

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