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| lizmat hopes it's safe to wish everybody a happy and fruitful 2025! | 13:43 | ||
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| antononcube | Thank you, @lizmat! Same to you! | 14:06 | |
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| lizmat | RakuIRCLogger | 14:08 | |
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| tbrowder | and same to you lizmat, and all my raku friends--hope to see you in Greenville in June | 15:08 | |
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| [Coke] | I am guessing we will be light on non-US participants this year. | 16:46 | |
| I am considering going, maybe we keep a list of folks who are a maybe or better? | 16:47 | ||
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| antononcube | It is seems that conference is going to happen when I am at a certain summer school it MT. So, I most likely I won't go. | 17:16 | |
| [Coke] | github.com/perlconference/tprc-202...i/Raku-BOF | 17:17 | |
| Spouse apparently up for a 13 hour drive to SC. | |||
| antononcube | Is the call for papers still on? | 17:21 | |
| I guess it is: www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/1h6...rs_closes/ | 17:25 | ||
| guifa | I'm going but dunno what I'll talk about yet | 17:37 | |
| antononcube | I have at ≈ 5 things I want to talk about. Hopefully, more than one talk person is allowed. | 17:39 | |
| guifa | yeah it is | 17:40 | |
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| grondilu | m: multi prefix:<->(UInt $n --> UInt) { callsame() mod $*m }; say -1 # no error, $*m is just ignored? | 17:48 | |
| camelia | -1 | ||
| grondilu | m: my $*m = 11; multi prefix:<->(UInt $n --> UInt) { callsame() mod $*m }; say -1 | ||
| camelia | -1 | ||
| grondilu | m: multi prefix:<->(UInt $n --> UInt) { callsame() mod 11 }; say -1 | ||
| camelia | 10 | ||
| grondilu | that looks LTA | ||
| not even a warning? | 17:49 | ||
| lizmat | m: dd 1,^name | 17:54 | |
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> Undeclared routine: name used at line 1 |
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| lizmat | m: dd 1.^name | ||
| camelia | "Int" | ||
| lizmat | m: dd Uint ~~ Int | ||
| camelia | ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp> Expected a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~ (to suppress this message, please use a space like ~ ~) at <tmp>:1 ------> dd Uint ~~<HERE> Int |
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| lizmat | m: dd UInt ~~ Int | ||
| camelia | Bool::True | ||
| lizmat | m: dd Int ~~ UInt | ||
| camelia | Bool::True | ||
| lizmat | hmmm | ||
| the latter feels wrong | 17:55 | ||
| grondilu | I doubt its about casting though, as the line with a literal modulus works as expected. | 18:03 | |
| antononcube | @grondilu Are you still interested in Raku-symbolics? | 18:04 | |
| grondilu | well, it'd be useful to me but I'm not willing to put much effort into it these days. | 18:05 | |
| currently I'm working on a Reed-Solomon implementation so I need a Polynomial class that works with finite fields. | 18:06 | ||
| the finite fields module I wrote some time ago is not as useful as I was hoping. | 18:07 | ||
| I really wish I could redefine all arithmetics operators in the current lexical scope in just one line but I can't make it work. | 18:08 | ||
| let alone having it to work with a module that was written for normal arithmetics, like Math::Polynomial | 18:09 | ||
| antononcube | Symbolics is a big field, and currently I am too busy (or should be) with certain numerics packages. And "Graph". | 18:12 | |
| grondilu | well, I'm struggling rn to even get the long division work, even though there is code on rosettacode | 18:15 | |
| grondilu realizes a mistake he made | 18:16 | ||
| oh well at least now I see what I did wrong | |||
| antononcube | 💡 | 18:17 | |
| grondilu | I had actually reversed the coefficients of polynomials to fit the convention on RC, but that can't work unless I pad with zeros first. | ||
| what a hassle | |||
| so yeah, it'd be nice to have a good symbolics package. | 18:18 | ||
| symbolic mathematics is underrated in programming IMHO | |||
| antononcube | Well, yeah! | 18:19 | |
| I have been telling this to people for years. Non having symbolic computations handy is / was really restricting what you can compute. | |||
| I expected this to become less important with LLMs evolution, though. | 18:20 | ||
| (It is already.) | |||
| grondilu | Have you considered making an interface with maxima? | 18:22 | |
| antononcube | No!!! 🙂 | ||
| Mathematica is just fine for me. | 18:23 | ||
| grondilu | Mathematica is not FOSS, though. | ||
| It's great, don't get me wrong, but it's just going to cause friction. | |||
| antononcube | Yeah. But my long term plan is to re-implement Mathematica in Raku. So, I much interested in having seemless Mathematica utilization in Raku in order to support that effort. | 18:24 | |
| After RakuAST is released, that would be much easier. So, I am kind of in a waiting mode for that project. (I started it a few years ago.) | 18:25 | ||
| grondilu | Well, godspeed then. | ||
| I wanted to do something like that too but it was way over my head. I do remember that I concluded that RakuAST would help indeed. | 18:26 | ||
| (only vaguely remember, though) | |||
| antononcube | 🙂 Thanks! I have been neglecting Mathematica projects in favor of Raku ones. So, again, I would rather deal or interface with Mathematica, out of guild, at least. | 18:27 | |
| grondilu | have you looked into maxima at least a bit, though? | ||
| I mean you don't want to reinvent the wheel | |||
| antononcube | I used maxima first 25+ years ago. Last time I looked into it was 3-5 years ago when I was looking for Raku enhancements. | 18:29 | |
| Honestly, it is too much like Mathematica and much "weaker" in any respect. So, I am not that interested investing in anything maxima-related. | 18:31 | ||
| grondilu | noted | ||
| antononcube | What, I was saying earlier about RakuAST for Mathematica -- look at this actions class: github.com/antononcube/Raku-Mathematica-Grammar | 18:32 | |
| I mean this link: github.com/antononcube/Raku-Mathem...rm.rakumod | |||
| The idea is interpret Mathematica expr into Raku code. | 18:33 | ||
| Without RakuAST I can do just that -- generate text. | 18:34 | ||
| grondilu | Well you could generate raku lists, couldn't you? | 18:35 | |
| antononcube | Yeah, that was my original idea or the attempt. | 18:36 | |
| BTW, if Mathematica is "figured out" Raku-wise, that means that any similar system can be also "interfaced" in that way. | |||
| grondilu | I think it should also be possible to process Wolfram Language expressions directly and implement transformation rules with regexes substitutions. | 18:37 | |
| or use an intermediate language like S-Expressions or even lambda-calculus for that matter. there's many ways to do it, but none of them is easy. | 18:38 | ||
| antononcube | Yes! And the other way around -- Mathematica can process Raku expressions directly with both symbolic and numeric computations. | 18:39 | |
| Again, I aggree -- that is why I implemented "Mathematica::Grammar". I have the S-expressions and symbolics in that way. I "just" have to have building of the corresponding Raku expressions. | 18:40 | ||
| grondilu | I'm not sure what these raku expressions would look like. | 18:41 | |
| It seems to me that we should stick to a textual representation bridge. | |||
| antononcube | "Ungly" code in NQP or RakuAST style. 🙂 | ||
| This is what is more less happening here (wrt "textual representation bridge"): raku.land/zef:antononcube/Proc::ZMQed | 18:42 | ||
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| As, you say, if the Raku expression, say, ($x + $y)**2, is replaced with the equivalent Mathematica one, ($x + $y)^2 , then can get the Mathematica to symbolically evaluate and the value substitution on Raku's end. | 18:44 | ||
| grondilu | $x and $y would be undefined Numeric variables then, right? | 18:45 | |
| or (Any) I suppose | 18:46 | ||
| antononcube | Yeah. But again, this a "text bridge". So, I get Raku expression back from Mathematica which I can just EVAL with concrete numeric values. | 18:47 | |
| grondilu | m: class MathExpression {} ; multi prefix:<+>(Any:U $) { MathExpression.new }; say +my $x | ||
| camelia | Ambiguous call to 'prefix:<+>(Any)'; these signatures all match: (\a) from SETTING::src/core.c/Numeric.rakumod line 61 (Any:U $) from <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| grondilu | m: say +my $x | 18:50 | |
| camelia | Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context 0 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| nahita3882 | is default would make first one work | 18:51 | |
| grondilu looks default trait in doc | |||
| that seems like a different semantics | 18:52 | ||
| nahita3882 | it would be a way to get decisive on the dispatch, i.e., I meant: | 18:53 | |
| m: class MathExpression {} ; multi prefix:<+>(Any:U $) is default { MathExpression.new }; say +my $x | |||
| evalable6 | Cannot test e7f9223c59e70e9cd829b592bc3133322b82b3ab (Broken archive) | ||
| linkable6 | (2024-12-30) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e7f9223c59 [JVM] Add extra check for GLOBAL being null (#5710) | ||
| Raku eval | MathExpression.new | ||
| grondilu | In any case ideally any CAS under raku should be a slang. IMHO. | 18:56 | |
| and these are NYI IIUC | |||
| which is why I concluded that RakuAST would eventually help, I think. | 18:57 | ||
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| antononcube | Well, it seems natural to make a slang first. | 19:10 | |
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| lizmat | if you make a new slang, be sure to use Slangify: raku.land/zef:lizmat/Slangify | 19:25 | |
| that will make it more likely it will continue to work with the new Raku grammar without needing changes to your code | 19:26 | ||
| antononcube | ✍️ | 19:27 | |
| As I have mentioned, I work on "doomify" -- I hope that finish that Raku post today. | 19:28 | ||
| I pulished the Mathematica one yesterday. But I started writing the Raku one first. | |||
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| patrickb | [Coke], lizmat: I've just released Terminal-MakeRaw 1.0.1. This might / should fix the line editor issues you observe on Mac. A version bump in Terminal-LineEditor is not necessary as it depends on Terminal-MakeRaw `1.0.0+`. | 20:49 | |
| lizmat | patrickb++ | 20:50 | |
| antononcube | weekly: rakuforprediction.wordpress.com/20...-plotting/ | 20:51 | |
| notable6 | antononcube, Noted! (weekly) | ||
| lizmat | antononcube will you post on /r/rakulang, or shall I ? | 20:52 | |
| antononcube | Ah -- please do it | 20:55 | |
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| lizmat | antononcube so done | 23:40 | |
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