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🦋 Welcome to the MAIN() IRC channel of the Raku Programming Language (raku.org). This channel is logged for the purpose of keeping a history about its development | evalbot usage: 'm: say 3;' or /msg camelia m: ... | Log inspection is getting closer to beta. If you're a beginner, you can also check out the #raku-beginner channel! Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021. |
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| thowe | How is popularity measured on raku.land? | 02:09 | |
| oh, github stars? So raku modules must be on github? | 02:14 | ||
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| japhb | thowe: I doubt that's a hard requirement. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the first thing implemented though. | 05:10 | |
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| lizmat | So I'me reading dev.to/taw/100-languages-speedrun-...sions-4p8n | 10:17 | |
| and the first half is about \d not being <[0..9]> | |||
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| moon-child | 'In the entire history of regular expressions, I don't know if there was even one case when someone actually wanted to match Unicode digits' | 10:20 | |
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| moon-child | wh-wh-what? | 10:20 | |
| I mean ... if you want <[0..9]>, it's very easy to write <[0..9]> | 10:21 | ||
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| MasterDuke | well, it's 6 more chars to type than \d | 10:25 | |
| and 8 more keypresses (on a US keyboard at least) | 10:26 | ||
| moon-child | Sure. How many characters is the regex for what \d is equivalent to? | 10:27 | |
| also: supposing you need a lot of ascii decimals. Then you can say my regex d { <[0..9]> } and then refer to <d>, which is only one more character | 10:28 | ||
| MasterDuke | i'm not as sure as that blog post that \d matching unicode digits is going to cause a ton of bugs and security vulnerabilities, but i wouldn't have objected to \d just matching <[0..9]> either and instead having something else for all digits | 10:31 | |
| Nemokosch | Welcome to a world where ASCII is still highly overrepresented as a norm 😆 | 10:53 | |
| Really, just to name a few development-related products, gyp, Android Studio and Lazarus are broken if I just try to use them at a normal place on my Windows system | 10:55 | ||
| to be fair, I don't think Unix even allows you to rely on non-ASCII folders - but if Windows allows this by default with no warnings whatsoever and people keep doing this, it's more than desirable that software tools in the 2020's handle this correctly | 10:56 | ||
| moon-child | what is 'unix'? | 10:58 | |
| most unices I know of treat paths as nul-terminated strings of octets | |||
| they do not care whether those octets represent ascii characters or not | |||
| moritz_ | most OSes (or their userland tools) that I have worked with do try to render path names into characters at some point | 10:59 | |
| Nemokosch | maybe this is a GNU/Linux thing then | ||
| Skarsnik | This guy does not understand they are lot of people using no ascii char (China + India is half the mondial population?) | 11:00 | |
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| Nemokosch | all distros I've tried to install made it clear very quickly that they want a traditional \s+ string for the username | 11:02 | |
| moritz_ | that must really suck, having to learn another script just to be able to pick a login name :-( | 11:28 | |
| though some display managers show the full name when logging in, at least | |||
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| Anton Antonov | Entertaining discussions this morning... | 12:10 | |
| CIAvash | ASCII users can solve their problem by using basic Latin: `[<?:Block('Basic Latin')> \d]+` | 12:27 | |
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| Nemokosch | yes, tbh the problem is using the same tools for parsing generic unicode text and IP addresses.... | 13:04 | |
| and still no proper mentions of the "vulnerabilities" | |||
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| moon-child | ip addresses have a very specific specification, in terms of ascii. Whatever spec will say 'an ascii digit (0-9)', and if I were implementing such a specification, I would use <[0..9]> to make it clear how the grammar corresponds to the spec, even if \d were ascii-only | 13:07 | |
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| Nemokosch | ^this | 13:35 | |
| leont | I remember some IP parsing libraries have had issues because they did octal in some cases… | 13:41 | |
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| Woodi | re vulnerabilities: few days ago was discusion about loading any module via any repository... I bet such easy in overriding used modules already had few CVE in other languages... maybe it should be limited instead left until someone have idea how to do flexibility secure ? | 16:20 | |
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| Woodi | also last month was same CVE about bidirectional source code text. I think I remember discusion #here few years ago about such posibility... do Raku code is vulnerable to such text overriding ? | 16:22 | |
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| japhb | Woodi: That one's about slipping in evil changes that won't be seen as such in an editor or patch viewer. | 16:34 | |
| Woodi | yes | 16:35 | |
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| Woodi | re ascii: until all computer stuff from cpus to operating systems and apps are USmericans made then primary ascii systems are well deserved :) | 16:38 | |
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| ggoebel | regarding ip addresses and ascii digits... I can recall a version os OS/2 (before warp) where in the configuration for ip addresses you had to enter it in hexidecimal... | 17:45 | |
| lizmat | he, at least it wasn't octal :-) | 17:50 | |
| japhb | .o( netmask 377.377.377.0 ) | 17:51 | |
| lizmat | :-) | 17:54 | |
| tonyo | is PTS going this year? | 17:59 | |
| Nemokosch | what is PTS? | 18:04 | |
| tonyo | perl toolchain summit | ||
| Voldenet | 0x7F.0x00.0x00.0x01, 0177.0000.0000.0001 and 2130706433 are all valid representations of the same ip | 18:06 | |
| i wish it wasn't true | |||
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| lizmat | tonyo: no idea, but I guess this is the wrong channel to ask :-) | 18:09 | |
| holyghost_ | You couldn't play games on OS/2 :-) | ||
| lizmat | tonyo: fwiw, when in person events are a thing again, I would love to organize a RTS :-) | 18:10 | |
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| tonyo | lizmat: really bummed i missed the last one, i was in israel - so close but so far | 18:10 | |
| lizmat | The one in Marlow, yeah. It was eventful indeed | 18:12 | |
| 2020 was officially cancelled, I don't think 2021 was ever announced, nor has 2022 afaik | 18:13 | ||
| tonyo | ahh bummer, is ovid still running those? | 18:18 | |
| lizmat | ovid was never running them, book was afaik? | 18:20 | |
| and the last one was mostly run by Neil Bowers? | 18:21 | ||
| tonyo | ah | 18:27 | |
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| guifa | moon-child I actually double checked the RFC on IP addresses. unlike virtually every other RFC i've seen, there's no strict definition for the textual representation of them | 19:02 | |
| (there is, however, for the binary representation) | |||
| Interestingly, the one for IPv6 exclusively uses capital letters, but in practice, I only see folks use lowercase. To me, an western Arabic 3 vs an eastern Arabic ٣ is no larger distinction than a lower f and an uppercase F in terms of text processing. | 19:04 | ||
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| Nemokosch | where is Marlow; | 19:31 | |
| lizmat | www.google.com/maps/place/Marlow,+...949036,14z | 19:43 | |
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| El_Che | guifa: my programs often have a normalize function for IPs and mac addresses :) | 19:51 | |
| guifa | El_Che exactly. In fact, I could almost envision programs that normalize data being potentially more secure. Someone has actually taken care to think about potentially junk data and handling it | 19:52 | |
| guifa emphasizes could almost envision (statement not to be taken as endorsing anything other than rigorously tested code as being considered secure lol) | 19:53 | ||
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