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Set by lizmat on 25 August 2021.
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Xliff Good mornign, #perl6 10:17
s/#perl6/#raku/
One of these days...
Nemokosch do these s// notations actually do something on the IRC? 10:19
or is it just a kind of inside joke
Xliff Inside joke 10:20
Although if you preceed anything with "m:", what follows is taken as evalable code by camelia and she'll try and run it.
Nemokosch It started being suspicious that there is some kind of bot there as well 😄
oh okay, that I can see 10:21
Xliff m: say "Hi there!" ~~ m:g/[er]/
camelia (｢er｣)
10:28 immediate joined
immediate hi, out of curiosity :d Is there any way to detect if a passed array is actually an attribute of an instance object? 10:31
*passed to a function 10:32
moritz no, the array knows nothing about where it's referenced 10:34
lizmat well, actually, you can with introspection:
m: class A { has @.a }; sub b(\a) { dd a.VAR.name }; b A.new(a => (1,2,3)).a
camelia "\@!a"
moritz my experience with introspecting container names is that's not as reliable as you'd want it to be 10:35
lizmat true
in any case, that property is being used by "dd"
m: class A { has @.a }; dd A.new(a => (1,2,3)).a 10:36
camelia Array @!a = [1, 2, 3]
Xliff lizmat: Have you played with RakuAST long enough to know which nodes are used in the creation of something like this: "sub a ( &b (Int, Str --> Num) ) { }"
lizmat Xliff: it's been many months since I've done anything with rakuAST, so I wouldn't know offhand
I suggest checking the tests, they all have the intended Raku equivalent source code in comments and/or tests 10:37
immediate: you're probably better of mixing in a role into whatever values you want to be able to detect 10:39
m: class A { has @.a = 1,2,3; method TWEAK() { @!a does role { method foo() { } } } }; sub b(\a) { say "{a} is a foo" if a.can("foo") }; b (1,2,3); b A.new.a 10:43
camelia 1 2 3 is a foo
lizmat m: class A { has @.a = 1,2,3; method TWEAK() { @!a does role { method foo() { } } } }; sub b(\a) { say "{a} is a foo" if a.can("foo") }; b (4,5,6); b A.new.a # clearer
camelia 1 2 3 is a foo
immediate lizmat: thank you very much! 10:45
Xliff lizmat: Looked. Doesn't seem to be there 10:47
I'll try and catch jnthn.
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Anton Antonov What would be the most elegant way to rename the keys in a hash? For example, I have a hash `h0` and a hash `kk` with key-to-new-key mapping. I found the Perl5 module `Hash::Rename` something like that and it was not that hard to re-program it in Raku, (metacpan.org/pod/Hash::Rename). But I would rather use Raku "direct" code. 11:32
lizmat %newhash = %hash.map: { %mapper{.key} => .value } 11:33
you could even .race that if the hash is very big 11:34
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Anton Antonov @lizmat Great, thanks! 11:35
lizmat this of course assumes no clashes and no keys added while mapping 11:38
Anton Antonov @lizmat During the weekend I read the code of your packages `Hash::int` and `Hash::Agnostic`. Is it a good idea to have a package `Hash::str`? And if yes, should `Hash::str` it based on `Hash::int` or `Hash::Agnostic`?
lizmat probably neither 11:41
Anton Antonov @lizmat Haha, ok! 11:47
lizmat just give me a mo, it's basically just a cat license of Hash::int
Anton Antonov Sounds great! 11:48
lizmat well... the speedup for the native str Hash would only be a few % 11:50
Anton Antonov @liszmat Any speed-up is welcome! 11:51
lizmat nah, just benchmarking it a bit now, it is within noise 11:52
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Anton Antonov Do you think that is across all platforms / OS? 11:53
I think it might instructive to see the code anyway...
@lizmat FYI, my motivation for asking for `Hash::str` is to speed-up building of tries-with-frequencies. (Which is a favorite Machine Learning method/approach of mine.) My initial Raku implementation was 100 slower than my Java implementation and 5 times slower than my Mathematica implementation. I was able to reduces those factors by half (40 and 2.2 respectively) but that is still slow. 11:55
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lizmat Anton Antonov: Hash::str should be available now after a "zef update" 12:04
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Anton Antonov Great! Thank you! 12:05
@lizmat And, yes, I found the code here: github.com/lizmat/Hash-str . 12:08
@lizmat And, yes, I found the code here: github.com/lizmat/Hash-str . 12:14
Geth raku-mode: 4ee9045eeb | Altai-man++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | raku-mode.el
Bump version to have an update without pkg-info

  @phikal++ for the suggestion.		 12:27
Altreus Having discarded the traditional regex grammar, I don't suppose Raku went a step further and discarded the traditional datetime formatting codes as well? 12:30
I marvel at the use of many of these, and the logic behind many others 12:31
%t - a tab character ... as if we can't put a tab character in a string already 12:33
lizmat printf compatibility was rated high
Altreus strftime not printf 12:34
lizmat meanwhile, I think the rakuAST approach of printf shows how we can easily make something better and be performant (because it will generate code, rather than interpret stuff each time)
Altreus printf generally has useful codes
lizmat I don't think we have strftime support in Raku ?
Altreus oh, then I approve
:D
ah it has a formatter object 12:35
I do wish someone would formally name Y-m-dTH:M:S±z so we can create meaningful method names 12:36
lizmat m: sub Y-m-dTH:M:S±z { } 12:38
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub Y-m-dTH:M:S7⏏5±z { }
expecting any of:
new name to be defined
lizmat m: sub Y-m-dTH:M:S { }
camelia ( no output )
lizmat too bad about the ± :-) 12:39
Altreus hey wait, you can put a colon in identifiers?
Wouldn't it be seen as an adjective?
lizmat m: sub Y-m-dTH:M:S { dd }; Y-m-dTH:M:S 12:40
camelia sub Y-m-dTH:M:S()
Altreus m: class Y-m-dTH:M:S {}
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot use adverb S on a type name (only 'ver', 'auth' and 'api' are understood)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3class Y-m-dTH:M:S7⏏5 {}
expecting any of:
generic role
lizmat I don't recall the exact semantics of that, but yes, you can
Altreus ah
that's where it's an adverb
class identifiers have different rules :) 12:41
lizmat yup
Altai-man m: class YouCan't {}; say YouCan't.new;
camelia YouCan't.new
lizmat I think they're considered adverby on other identifiers as well
raku.land/zef:lizmat/Acme::Don't :-) 12:43
Altreus oh good, Raku was feeling boring without acme 12:44
lizmat raku.land/?q=Acme
Altreus +1 for don't x unless y 12:45
that's English! 12:46
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Altreus I have been informed the datetime format I want is in rfc3339 12:59
Anton Antonov @lizmat Your example here github.com/lizmat/Hash-int uses `Hash::str` (not `Hash::int`.)
lizmat Antonov: yeah a snafu, I guess I should make an update 13:00
Altreus a thinko 13:02
Anton Antonov @lizmat Your example here github.com/lizmat/Hash-int uses `Hash::str` (not `Hash::int`.)
Altreus discord bot may be duplicating messags 13:03
lizmat Antonov: should be fixed now
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Anton Antonov @lizmat Ok, thanks! 13:13
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@lizmat I programmed a benchmark for `Hash::str` and `Hash::int` -- both are 40-50% faster on my MacBookPro. 13:53
@lizmat It looks like though I cannot use `push` on those structures. Is it something that has to be implemented? I.e. should I open issues on the corresponding GitHub repositories? 13:54
codesections I found this surprising. Any thoughts on whether it's a bug: 14:01
m: class C {...}; say C.foo; say C.bar; my class C { my $n = 42; method foo { $n }; method bar { 42 }}
camelia (Any)
42
codesections Specifically, the "this" I'm referring to is that local variables in a class are declared but not assigned in the time between a forward declaration of the class and the actual declaration 14:02
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lizmat Antonov: please open issues :-) 15:14
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raydiak codesections: I don't have time to check docs for an explanation, but I for one do find that surprising 15:36
autopunned roles don't seem to suffer from it, interestingly: 15:37
m: role C { ... }; C.m; role C { my $foo = 42; method m { say $foo } }
camelia 42
codesections raydiak, thanks. If no one chimes up with a reason it's _not_ a bug, I'll open an issue later today 15:47
raydiak if you wanted to check the docs yourself, I'd be searching for something about class composition time and compile vs run time, I strongly suspect it's something to do with those things 15:54
codesections++ good at shaking out the bugs 15:55
afk &
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[Coke] www.reddit.com/r/rakulang/comments...ntime_for/ looks nifty. Wonder if there's enough other stuff to make the online attendance package worth it. 16:52
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codesections That does look really interesting. It looks like at least many of the talk recordings from the 2020 conference were posted online (2020.splashcon.org/). I hope the same is true this year 17:53
[Coke] (y) 17:57
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lizmat and yet another Rakudo Weekly News hits the Net: rakudoweekly.blog/2021/09/27/2021-...ming-haku/ 18:44
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raydiak thank you lizmat++. if I may offer a correction, in "Jonathan Worthington saw a relative easy way to optimize subroutine calls" "relative" should be "relatively" 20:31
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[Coke] wonder how much faster 'zef install HTML::Canvas --deps-only' would be on an M1 mac instead of this ancient beast. 20:37
ugexe dont forget it could be slower depending on how much JIT affects it 20:43
although when skipping tests everything was a bit faster in zef (presumably due to the extra cores of the m1 vs the previous gen intel i7 macbook) 20:44
tonyo [Coke]: 23s on my m1
it also failed
ld doesn't have an arm for libfreetype
arm arch 20:45
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[Coke] 'zef look' doesn't respect my path. if I change my PATH, then do a 'zef look', I get my default raku, not the one first in my PATH. 20:56
tonyo zef isn't a shell 20:57
[Coke] zef launches a shell. I'm saying the env vars aren't being passed in to the invoked shell 21:05
sorry, "zef look" launches a shell. 21:06
jdv why does zef look launch a shell? weird. i didn't know about that. 21:24
ugexe cause thats what `panda look ...` did heh 21:27
and i imagine panda did that because cpanm does that 21:33
jdv oh
[Coke] ugexe: does it make sense to try to preserve existing shell env vars or should I not expect that? I no longer need it, but will open a ticket if you like 21:37
lizmat raydiak++ # fixed 21:43
ugexe [Coke]: i'm not sure how that wouldnt already be happening if raku sees it fine since shell passes along %*ENV and the zef look logic is essentially just a 1 liner -- github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/1809160b...kumod#L881 21:46
[Coke]: i'm not sure how that wouldnt already be happening if raku sees it fine since shell passes along %*ENV and the zef look logic is essentially just a 1 liner -- github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/1809160b...kumod#L881 21:47
for me it seems to work as you expect 21:55
i.e. if i set `BAR=42` then do `zef look` i can still see BAR as 42 21:56
[Coke] could have been user error, for sure. 22:00
my issue was that when I did "which raku" I got the rakubrew raku instead of the one I had first in my PATH before issuing zef look. 22:01
ugexe ah well you probably have something like .bash_profile or some such auto setting that
[Coke] ... D'oh 22:03
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[Coke] so yes, user error. :) 22:16
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